| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 02:16PM
| #1 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Hello. I know one company which claims on its websites that it hires exclusively native speakers of English language but yet has some ESL writers with no or lack of life/educational experience in any of the English speaking countries. The company is duly registered in the States. I wonder whether there can be any sort of legal action against them for this?
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:23PM
| #2 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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The point is knowing is different than proving. It's one thing you know that the company has some ESL writers (against its claims); it's, however, another thing to prove this claim wrong. If you can do that (which I don't think is possible), you can possibly sue them for misrepresentation or misleading their clients. Nothing more than that.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 02:25PM
| #3 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Sure, the point is that i can prove it.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:34PM
| #4 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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Then you should see your lawyer and discuss the details.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 02:35PM
| #5 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
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If you can, please, go into more details about misrepresentation and will they even suffer if I prove their guilt?
Thanks.
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:49PM
| #6 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
Posts: 3,498
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First, MeoKhan is not a lawyer, nor is this a legal forum, so asking for this type of advice is like asking the guy who bags your groceries about your dietary needs.
Second, how do you know the company is "duly registered in the States"? Which state, specifically? How are they incorporated?
Third, do you have screenshots of the native writers only claim? What evidence do you have that the writer is not a native English speaker?
I have no doubt that you got scammed, but pursuing this is going to be difficult if not impossible. It's what these companies count on. Chances are the company is not based in the US at all, and is entirely outside the reach of US law in this specific instance.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:49PM
| #7 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
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I think this type of law suit falls in the category of contract law. Your lawyer will have to work on the evidence the company used to mislead you. You must also be a party in the contract with that company. If you are not, you cannot sue them. However, if I am not wrong, you can claim for the damages incurred upon you by such misrepresentation. It involves a lot of calculations and differ from one country to another. Your lawyer will guide you better in this regard.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:51PM
| #8 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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Yes that's what I stated in the foregoing post. Evidence is what counts. I am of course not a lawyer and have admitted it already. He asked of me for an opinion that I just passed.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 02:53PM
| #9 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Thanks to both of you for your answers. I do have the screenshot and there is a prove that they are registered in the US. I am not going into specifics right know because I do not know whether I will be taking action against them. The only thing I want to know is whether the blow will be serious enough to make them stop cheating in case I do sue them.
Thanks again.
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:54PM
| #10 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
Posts: 3,498
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MeoKhan: Your lawyer will guide you better in this regard.
You should have started and stopped there. He's not even talking about a civil suit, necessarily; it sounds like he's more interested in criminal charges. When it comes to reimbursement for the purchase made, it would be a small claims matter where lawyers aren't allowed (you can always pay a lawyer for advice, but they can't come into court with you and you'll end up paying more than you'll win, in many cases). This would also be a very simple contract case, assuming that a promise of only native-speaking writers was included in the contract. Again, proving that is the big problem.
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:57PM
| #11 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
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vendetta: there is a prove that they are registered in the US.
vendetta: I am not going into specifics
The only "specifics" you need are the registered name of the corporation, as an active corporation, registered with the Secretary of State in which the company is incorporated. In order to press charges/file suit, you'll need their agent for service, anyway, and the SoS website is usually the easiest place to find this.
Here's the thing: a lot of companies make it look like they're based in the US when they really aren't. A lot of people who don't really know what they're doing get fooled by this. Unless you have found the company registered as an active corporation within a specific state, using that state's own website, you don't have the knowledge you think you have.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 02:58PM
| #12 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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vendetta: the blow will be serious enough
I don't think so. Secondly, Pheelyks is right. Proving your claim will be a BIG problem. All the luck, though.
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:01PM
| #13 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
Posts: 3,498
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vendetta: in case I do sue them.
The only thing you would be able to sue them for is the money you spent purchasing the work you're displeased with, and if you got a really permissive judge you might be able to get some punitive damages. You will not be able to successfully sue them for millions or even thousands of dollars, however, so no, you will not be able to stop them from doing what they are doing with a civil suit.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Edited by: vendetta Jan 23, 12, 03:04PM
| #14 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
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Guys, I have started this thread to see whether there is a way to make one particular company stop cheating. I thought most of the people here do pursue similar objective (with regards to different companies, though). That's it.
What about damage to their reputation? Will not it detract their clients? I am not seeking millions or even thousands of dollars.
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:06PM
| #15 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
Posts: 3,498
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vendetta: Guys, I have started this thread to see whether there is a way to make one particular company stop cheating.
Then the answer is no.
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| Major |
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Jan 23, 12, 03:07PM
| #16 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 11
Posts: 488
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MeoKhan: It's one thing you know that the company has some ESL writers (against its claims)
So you plan to sue all (I mean all) US-based companies? Name one US-based company that has never worked with a non-native speaker. If the writing level (as judged by the company) is native-equivalent then most (if not all) companies won't refuse to contract with such a writer.
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:07PM
| #17 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
Posts: 3,498
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vendetta: I thought most of the people here do pursue similar objective
Many customers come here in the hopes of doing this, but it doesn't really happen.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:08PM
| #18 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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Major: So you plan to sue all (I mean all) US-based companies?
Sorry but it's not ME; it's the revolutionary V for
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:10PM
| #19 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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vendetta: What about damage to their reputation?
Little if any.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:14PM
| #20 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Hi. Not all, just one. Could you tell me what is a "native-equivalent" and how an ESL writer can achieve it?
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:17PM
| #21 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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vendetta: "native-equivalent"
An ESL writer who writes as well as a native writer. Just one. Hm.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:19PM
| #22 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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What about the second part? How it can be achieved? :)
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:20PM
| #23 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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Which part?
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:21PM
| #24 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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ESL writers have to live or study in an English-speaking country to achieve that high level of proficiency, don't they?
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| pheelyks |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:22PM
| #25 |
Joined: Jan 20, 09
Threads: 8
Posts: 3,498
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vendetta: ESL writers have to live or study in an English-speaking country to achieve that high level of proficiency, don't they?
No.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:23PM
| #26 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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Not necessarily. It's the work that's more important rather than the place of living.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:25PM
| #27 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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OK, agree. But that doesn't matter as the website says only native speakers are hired!
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| Major |
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Edited by: Major Jan 23, 12, 03:30PM
| #28 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 11
Posts: 488
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vendetta: But that doesn't matter as the website says only native speakers are hired!
Most clients would choose to work with an excellent ESL writer rather than a mediocre native speaker.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:32PM
| #29 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Yes, but that is the other side of the issue. You cannot justify a company lying about qualifications of its employees simply by stating that.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 23, 12, 03:37PM
| #30 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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vendetta: You cannot justify a company lying about qualifications of its employees simply by stating that
You're right but proving your point would be a major issue really.
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| Major |
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Edited by: Major Jan 23, 12, 03:42PM
| #31 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 11
Posts: 488
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vendetta: You cannot justify a company lying about qualifications of its employees simply by stating that.
We concluded that an excellent ESL writer is often better than a poor or average native speaker.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:42PM
| #32 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Here is a list of things I can present:
Several screenshots from their website where they claim all writers are native speakers
An adevrtisment from another website where they ask only native-speaking writers to contact them as there is no chance for others to get employed
A whole documented story of how an average ESL writer got there and worked for quite a long time, writing quite a lot of papers. And she never lied about her qualifications during the selection process.
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| Major |
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Jan 23, 12, 03:48PM
| #33 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 11
Posts: 488
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I think it's a fail.
But if you have money to waste on a lawyer, good luck. If you win, Pepsi will finally be able to prove in court that their product tastes better than a Coke ;).
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 23, 12, 03:54PM
| #34 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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:)))))
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| WritersBeware |
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Jan 23, 12, 05:57PM
| #35 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 144
Posts: 8,478
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vendetta: An adevrtisment from another website where they ask only native-speaking writers to contact them as there is no chance for others to get employed
Sorry, you just LOST right there. In order to obtain any sort of punitive damages, you will likely have to prove "intent to deceive" or malice on the part of the company. The fact that the company's employment ads specifically direct non-native English speakers NOT to bother contacting the company is a clear indication that the company's intent is both honorable and legal. Sorry, but you have ZERO case.
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| vendetta |
Student |
Jan 24, 12, 07:09AM
| #36 |
Joined: Jan 23, 12
Threads: 1
Posts: 14
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Hi. Thanks for the comment. Did you read my previous post till the end? I said an ESL writer actually was employed and worked for them. And she never concealed the fact she was ESL with no life/educational experience in any of English-speaking countries.
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| MeoKhan |
Writer |
Jan 24, 12, 08:28AM
| #37 |
Joined: Jan 9, 11
Threads: 3
Posts: 1,090
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So what's wrong with this story? She must have had expert level skills and so the company hired her. How can this be regarded cheating? If you receive a best product that makes you so happy, do you care whether a native or an ESL writer did it? Your case is weak, sorry.
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| Major |
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Jan 24, 12, 12:49PM
| #38 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 11
Posts: 488
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Having read this discussion in more detail I conclude a legitimate US/UK based company should now think twice before working with an ESL writer (even an excellent one). Who'd want to work with someone who bites the hand that feeds them?
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Jan 24, 12, 03:02PM
| #39 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 144
Posts: 8,478
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vendetta: Did you read my previous post till the end? I said an ESL writer actually was employed and worked for them.
Yes, I did.
You would have to prove ALL of the following:
* the company KNEW that the writer is ESL;
* the company KNEW that the writer is an unqualified, ESL writer and knowingly hired him/her, anyway;
* the company hired the writer based on poor, "ESL" writing samples;
* the company employed "bad faith," "intent to deceive," and/or malice.
Companies hire freelance writers based solely on the personal information and writing samples that those writers provide. Online companies never meet the applicants in person. ESL applicants have been known to hire an editing service to edit their writing samples. That's sad and pathetic, but true.
Again, you have no case.
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| Heremeout |
Writer |
Jan 25, 12, 04:09AM
| #40 |
Joined: Sep 29, 11
Threads: 8
Posts: 234
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WritersBeware
Hey!
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