Can a non-native English writer be an excellent academic writer?

Is it possible for a non-native English writer to match the native writer's skills, knowledge, and the usage of the English language? Why or why not?

Yes absolutely.. this industry is dominated by non-native english writers.

Hey.. don't be fooled by my non-Caucasian good looks. I'm... more than meets the eye. ^_^

:)

Another skewed post by Stewy. The matter at hand involves the multitude of unqualified, ESL writers strictly in the essay industry, not legitimate, well-educated, ESL writers in accountable or in some way regulated industries who have actually honed their English writing skills to the point at which the differences are non-existent between their writing and that of similarly educated, native English-speaking writers.

I'd be sincerely interested, Stewy, in you presenting an ESL writer (currently employed by your "company") who is a better writer than pheelyks, Lavinia, FreelanceWriter, or me.

You misunderstood stu4's question--he asked whether the skill level of a non-native writer could be as high as that of a native writer, not which type of writer "dominated" (i.e. was more populous in) the market. It is probably true that there are more non-native English writers working in this industry, but it is also true that the vast majority of these writers (yourself included) do not come close to matching the skills of most of the native writers.

In answer to stu4's ACTUAL question, of course a non-native speaker could become as skilled as a native speaker in any language, with proper study and practice. Most of the ESL writers in this industry, however, have not put the necessary time and effort into this.

it's not where you're from, it's where you're at.

It's definitely possible. I'm born & raised in NYC and the three biggest influences on my English skills were my German-born father and uncle and Tek Young Lin, my high school English teacher: all English grammarians and scholars. The problem isn't that non-native speakers "can't" achieve excellence as English writers; the problem is that it's (apparently) quite common for non-native speakers to confuse English speaking fluency/and perfectly competent writing with written English that is 100% unrecognizable as non-native. You can write very well but still not in a way that completely extinguishes the written analog of a spoken "accent." Same way many foreign speaker can never eliminate their accent 100%. In both cases, it's possible, but many more think they have reached that level than actually have.

That's the situation with some people here whose every post proves the point and who have absolutely no idea that's the case and think that pointing it out in the context of whether student's have a right to know the truth is an intentional insult to them. It isn't, but if I can tell you're a non-native speaker just from your forum posts, you have no business ever not disclosing that to potential clients in advance. If your clients are OK with hiring someone they know writes well but is a non-native speaker, I don't see any issue. They should have the chance to make that decision for themselves, though.

What everyone is assuming here is that writing good english is the only criteria for working in this industry(correct me if i am wrong)..
Will you need an MA in English to write a paper on Maths? or Physics? or supply chain management? No way.... When you write on technical subjects, your knowledge of the subject counts more than your ability to write good english... it is really easy to remember the list of all SAT or GRE words and use them in your papers to make an impression but does that also mean that you have the requisite knowledge of subject?

To bake a cake, one needs to know what ingredients to use and how to blend them. You're no baker.

In short, caca's senseless argument is that an idiot savant in mathematics is perfectly qualified to write a paper on mathematics (or on any other subject).

I have degrees in law and psychology but I don't speak French; therefore, I can't write a legal or psychology paper in French. If I spoke French well and wrote well, my written French would probably still be recognizable as foreign French writing. If I wrote perfect French, I'd still never take a paper on any subject in which I didn't have the requisite understanding to write.

Nobody's suggesting that writing skills or language fluency makes up for lack of substantive knowledge or vice-versa and nobody is confusing those two completely separate issues. Except you.

AND YOU ARE? WHO BAKES LIES AND ACCUSATIONS HURLED AGAINST ANYONE AND EVERYONE...

I could write better than you while in a coma. Seriously, on life support, I could out-write you.

So all you mean is " Non Native Writers" can not work in this industry and must leave the space for " Native Writers" to rob and cheat " NATIVE CUSTOMERS"

Caca, my request is very simple: quote ONE post in which I have "lied" about anything.

This is called delusion... you and your friends probaly are victims of self praise and appreciation for their own work....

The space provided on this forum is too little to expose your lies

I have challenged you and your paid friends to win an argument against me.. I am repeating that challenge again.. If you can argue rationally and without insulting others.. I am challenging you to argue with me.. Lets see how far you can go....

What is your argument, exactly, caca?

That you are a lier and a cheat... that you are being paid to malign those who compete with your masters..

Um, that's not an argument; that's an asinine accusation that both OR and I have already denied and you have absolutely no means to prove. So, once again, I invite you to shut your mudflap.

Whatever others quote is a lie and whatever you and OR post is complete truth..
Unwritten rule of this forum is
" Whatever OR, WB and their friends post here must not be challenged in anyway because they always post true statements. All other posts may easily be considered as false and pack of lies"

That is what certain people on this forum seem to believe and purport...namely WB, OR, and their friends (of which I, I can only assume, am one). And you think the opposite. And say so. On this forum. That's called the First Amendment (part of it, anyway) in this country, and is a basic democratic right in most of the developed world. And the Internet.

I'm sorry if that sounds a little sarcastic; it's late and I can't sleep and that makes me cranky. I don't men to lash out at you, chacha. But you are allowed to make your arguments just like anybody else. The fact that you consistently lose them is not the fault of any inherent bias in this forum.

"Go to yourselves! Because that's the only place you're ever going to find any real truth.!"
-"Network," 1976 (written by Paddy Chayefsky)

Dancing Fool - your persistent failure to read and accurately comprehend the meaning of posts written in very uncomplicated English, say all there is to say about your qualifications as a researcher/writer. Your language use only confirms that you need to be locked up for daring to assume that you may work as a writer and, indeed, deserve payment for your written work.

This is getting to be horribly repetitive but ONCE AGAIN, nobody has said anything about non-native speakers not being able to work in this industry. E-W is a self-confessed ESL writer ... do you believe that your linguistic skills come anywhere close to his? You may have been a match for him when he was a toddler but, certainly not now ...

You can defeat WB in arguments? Interesting ... I always assumed that to effectively and constructively engage in any argument, one first had to understand the topic being argued. Given that you have problems in the area of comprehension, problems whose magnititude is matched only by your highly limited intelligence and your shocking immaturity, I really do not see how you can debate with anyone over anything.

Many of the ESL writers in this industry are wonderfully qualified - whether assessed from the academic or linguistic point of view. Not only do they have a place in this industry but there are companies which proudly declare that they hire both native and PERFECTLY QUALIFIED ESL writers. Unfortunately, the presence of ESL writers such as yourself in this industry has only served to immeasurably harm the reputation of non-native writers in general. The industry does not need to clean itself of non-native speakers but of non-native speakers of your ilk. Is that clear? Non-native speakers can be excellent, and many are, but you are not ...

As for your assumption that all native speakers are cheats ... is that what you want to debate? A ridiculous claim such as that is not even worthy of a response ...

If only you would take a moment to read your own posts and think about how they come across, you might stop posting ... in fact, you might even cut off the hand that ever dared to write a word in English ... as well as the head which allowed the hand to believe that it could write English on a professional level.

Thank you.

"Non-native speakers can be excellent, "
They are..
They do not need a certificate from a jerk like you who cheats them everytime

It's literally impossible to debate with a being that refuses to provide evidence to support any of its arguments. It's like trying to verbally explain to a dog why it's wrong to steal food from the dinner table.

Read my various posts and they are enough to prove you and your friends as cheat and fraud and liers

Yes, folks, it's typed the word in this exact manner about 10 times. Don't let on . . . .

You have made 3 accusations here and I am waiting for you to back them up. Until you do, please allow me to explain why you are a lier, cheater and a scum marketer.

LIER:
1) you claimed that essaybay owed you money and when you were asked to provide the order number, you failed
2) you claimed to have received a spam email from essaybrunch asking you to sign on as a writer, forgetting that you had earlier announced the launch of essaybrunch
3) you have repeatedly denied any affiliation with essaybrunch ... you later admitted a financial interest in it, only to deny it again
4) since signing up here, you have proved yourself a real globe-trotter ... how many countries till now?
5) you have deliberately twisted every post made by others and have lied about their meaning
6) you lied when you stated that you knew that all posts here were made by a single person
7) you lied when you said that your linguistic skills were equal to anyone's here
8) you lied when you claimed that we control this forum
9) you lied when you claimed any form of literacy or education for yourself
10) you lied when you presented yourself as anything other than a monocellular life form

CHEAT:
1) you cheated everyone on this forum when you said that you heard of a great company (essaybrunch) which we should all sign up to
2) you repeatedly cheat your customers when you claim that you can comprehend or write English
3) you cheated essaybay when you plagiarised their terms of service
4) you cheated essaybay when you attempted to copy their layout
THE LIST IS TOO EXTENSIVE SO, ETC ETC ETC

SCUM MARKETER
1) you engage in scum marketing when you accuse all native writers of being cheats
2) you engage in scum marketing when all you do is accuse everyone here of being dishonest scammers
3) you engage in scum marketing against AA (without evidence)
4) you engage in scum marketing against the countless companies you have accused of robbing you and customers (without evidence)

Dancing Fool - wake up! Your posts are getting more and more delusional by the minute. You come across as a hysterical, uneducated, barely literate, paranoid child. Whatever you may imagine - nobody needs to take either essaybrunch or you down. Apart from the fact that you are no competition, you are doing an excellent job of murdering your own reputation and of ensuring that none visit your diner.

IT IS INFECTING ME!!!!!!! I misspelt LIAR in the post above . Not a typo ... a real case of bad spelling. MODERATOR .... IT is infecting us!!!! Remove the dancing virus!!!!

Pls provide a single instance of my ever having cheated a writer, customer or employee :) you really are nothing but a hysterical child, intent on throwing one tantrum after the other ... poor baby

When they asked me for that?
If I can prove that essaybay is a fraud and have robbed me and its customer's money, would you render public appology for all the lies that you and your friends have posted here? Do you you have a courage to do that?

Please show me the post? I would love to see it

Sox (my dog) is seriously offended now! If you don't take the comparison back, she will sue you for slander and character defamation ...

Thats what all you can do.. use abusive languag and threat people who challenge you.. You are nothing more than a fat ass brooding over her failure to compete ethicaly and professionally....all of you are exposed....

Don't you remember the announcement?
http://www.essayscam.org/Forum/15/random-posts-thread-off-topic-improper-ab usive-deletable-858/4/
"Apr 23, 09, 10:17AM - Attached on merging:
New Website

Dear All
I am pleased to announce that we are in process of launching a rival of essaybay.com. Our site will be probably the most transparent essay writing service firm to offer a direct interaction between writers and buyers.
After going through an ordeal of telephonic and email threats, contract suspensions for petty reasons, pay issues, we, a group of writers, have decided to launch our own website where writers and buyers will be face to face with each other. We can guarantee you that no one from admin will ever call you or threat you, you can instantly withdraw your money without fearing that it will clamped by some crooks sitting behind the veiled curtains. Our site will show you full information of writers so that buyers can interact directly with them either on their phone numbers or emails- We are committed to scrap double standards in this industry where most of the companies are running two websites and customer never knows where he or she actually placed the order.
Buyers can set their own price for as little as $1 if they are lucky enough to find a writer who may be willing to work for $1. Buyers can view complete information of the writers, can call them and above all decided exactly when to pay them.
I request all of you to forward your suggestions in order to make this website perfect for both the writers and the buyers."

You poor child ... you really do believe that you are a threat? A challenge? You honestly believe that you are competition?

I was threatening WB, not you, for unforgivably insulting Sox

Only thing exposed here is your absolute inability to construct a single sentence in proper English or to make one post which is not full of spelling mistakes