| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 30, 10, 12:17AM
| #121 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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editor75: I agree-- they don't need protection; they need collectivization---> organization -----> power legitimate, educated, proficient writers in the English language need power: the power to withhold work collectively in order to combat an inherently unfair system, in which the lion's share of the profits go to the owner. writers: what's the difference between being content and being satisfied?
Meaningless semantics.
You continue to lump together, despite the difference experience of WRITERS here telling you otherwise, blatantly exploitative companies and companies that have minimum CPPs, don't charge fines, and have a very fair split.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 30, 10, 12:14PM
| #122 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: legitimate, educated, proficient writers in the English language need power
WRONG, ignoramus. The "power" of such writers is inherent in their abilities! Please, please, PLEASE go away.
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| editor75 |
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Dec 30, 10, 02:15PM
| #123 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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I suppose I deserve being quoted partially and out of context, since I have done it to others.
since this is a new page, let me remind everyone that legitimate, educated, proficient writers need the power to withhold work collectively, after they have organized into a position of collective bargaining with the owners re: minimum industry standards for writers. this is not individualistic or inherent.
as to the exact minimum industry standards, this is what appears to be the main point of contention.
AmonsEssays: You continue to lump together, despite the difference experience of WRITERS here telling you otherwise, blatantly exploitative companies and companies that have minimum CPPs, don't charge fines, and have a very fair split.
yes; the latter entity in your comparison is a myth.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 30, 10, 02:34PM
| #124 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: I suppose I deserve being quoted partially and out of context
I quoted you PERFECTLY in context.
editor75: yes; the latter entity in your comparison is a myth
F off, ya clueless, idiotic liar. I've had just about enough of your bullsh*t. Leave, or things will get very ugly for you in a very public fashion.
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| Major |
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Dec 30, 10, 02:44PM
| #125 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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editor75: let me remind everyone that legitimate, educated, proficient writers need the power to withhold work collectively, after they have organized into a position of collective bargaining with the owners re: minimum industry standards for writers. this is not individualistic or inherent.
First, let at least the majority of wannabe writers start to meet the minimum 'industry standards.' I don't have the exact numbers but I can reasonably assume out of 100 applicants 70 can be safely ignored because those 'writers' aren't capable of writing a coherent sentence in English.
Second, you've already been told that there are two groups of owners: legitimate and fraudulent. There are twice as many fraudulent owners as legitimate ones. Legitimate writers do not work for fraudulent companies because they are educated enough not to wait months for payments and they are educated enough not to work for $4 per page. 99% of all complaints posted here or on similar forums are made by illegitimate (ESL) writers working for illegitimate companies (because only such companies can work with such writers).
You need to educate yourself about the industry first because so far you've just wasted everybody's time with your moronic statements and questions. If you want to stick to your 'plans' you need to go back to 3rd world countries and try to 'protect' ESL writers from there. Nobody needs you in English-speaking countries.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 30, 10, 02:53PM
| #126 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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Major: First, let at least the majority of wannabe writers start to meet the minimum 'industry standards.' I don't have the exact numbers but I can reasonably assume out of 100 applicants 70 can be safely ignored because those 'writers' aren't capable of writing a coherent sentence in English. Second, you've already been told that there are two groups of owners: legitimate and fraudulent. There are twice as many fraudulent owners as legitimate ones. Legitimate writers do not work for fraudulent companies because they are educated enough not to wait months for payments and they are educated enough not to work for $4 per page. 99% of all complaints posted here or on similar forums are made by illegitimate (ESL) writers working for illegitimate companies (because only such companies can work with such writers). You need to educate yourself about the industry first because so far you've just wasted everybody's time with your moronic statements and questions. If you want to stick to your 'plans' you need to go back to 3rd world countries and try to 'protect' ESL writers from there. Nobody needs you in English-speaking countries.
BINGO!
Editor75: read and comprehend.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 30, 10, 02:54PM
| #127 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Breaking News:
Marxism proved a failed ideology which did nothing but impoverish, dehumanise, marginalise, oppress and terrorise the workers it supposedly sought to empower.
Grow up.
For the last blooming time
1) none are against fair pay
2) the educated and professionals writers (who happen to actually speak the language they are being paid to write in) do not need unions to advance their interest. The legits count them as their true assets and treat them well
3) the illiterati are dispensable. When they satisfy the minimum requirements of the job, then they can come here and debate their dues.
4) those who work for EW and AR need to understand that they willingly resigned any rights when they signed up with these outfits. They chose to ignore the scam warnings; they willingly picked up orders which were priced at $3-6; they knowingly signed up with companies which lied about their origins, their ownership, etc; they agreed to the fine structure,etc.
Do I need remind yiu that WB has spent years warning writers? Had you just listened instead of at taking her at every turn, you would not be in this position.
I am against the minimum CPP but all for a minimum percentage. All the legits pay between 40-50%.
Your proposal is a joke - 90%?! we are not running charities for the illiterati and the ignoramuses of the world.
Paid vacation?
Overtime?
Percentage of royalties (we are not publishing houses and you aren't J.K. Rowling, by the way
Healthcare
You uninformed person - even established authors/bestselling authors, do not get what you are proposing.
Do you have a feasibility study to back up your la-la land proposal?
Please stop posting.
Your proposals have no basis in
Business law
Fair employment law
Common sense
Business logic
Instead of going on and on about this, do what I asked of you when you were the 'other poster' - establish your own site and put your ludicrous and laughable plans to the test. Succeed and then we may follow suite. Remember:
90%
paid vacations
Healthcare plans
Overtime
Company car
Paid sick leave
Royalties
While at it, what about paid maternity leave?
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 30, 10, 03:15PM
| #128 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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I have a question: why haven't you formed your company yet? You claimed that ...
Have you forwarded your list of demands to
EW
AR
RWC
Pls do :)
Stick to the Indian market pls. None in the wider market will 'avail' themselves of yiur services :)
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 30, 10, 03:23PM
| #129 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WritersBeware: Leave, or things will get very ugly for you in a very public fashion.
tell me more.
Major: Legitimate writers do not work for fraudulent companies
aside from being a semantic minefield, this simply isn't true.
WRT: the educated and professionals writers (who happen to actually speak the language they are being paid to write in) do not need unions to advance their interest.
you seem to be speaking for a lot of people here.
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 30, 10, 03:25PM
| #130 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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Editor75, crawl back under your Indian rock and shut up. You are an unconscionable idiot.
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 30, 10, 03:28PM
| #131 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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No problem. I relish taunting.
WRT, please send me all of your info. I will combine it with mine and create a new thread to ensure that this f*cking moron NEVER defrauds a single customer.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 30, 10, 03:30PM
| #132 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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I speak for the pros. You do not count as one.
You don't know how things can get ugly?!
Major is spouting meaningless semantics?
'avail' yourself of a psychatrist's services.
WB - no problem
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| rogerb |
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Edited by: rogerb Dec 30, 10, 03:38PM
| #133 |
Joined: Jun 26, 10
Threads: 5
Posts: 27
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Guys, I've heard IRS is looking into online writing companies because they don't like the fact so many independent contractors are in this market. They want all of them to be classified as employees. After reading Editor75 statements it looks to me he is an IRS agent or their lawyer.
It's not to protect writers, but to make sure that the IRS have a better control over them for tax purposes.
(And I'm serious.)
Happy New Year everyone.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 30, 10, 03:46PM
| #134 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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No - it is looking into independant contractirs who do not declare their income.
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| Major |
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Dec 30, 10, 03:54PM
| #135 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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rogerb: I've heard IRS is looking into online writing companies
That clearly explains Editor75's posts and agenda.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 30, 10, 04:04PM
| #136 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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rogerb: IRS agent or their lawyer.
Editor is from India
Editor knows noting of the law
What has the fact that some companies do not pay their taxes have anything to do with editor's demands?
The IRS is not stupid - editor is
Editor - go take an after dark walk in centralpark - I hear it's freezing and not very safe :)
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 30, 10, 04:07PM
| #137 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WritersBeware: No problem. I relish taunting.
obviously... but for all that relish, you're not very good at it.
rogerb: After reading Editor75 statements it looks to me he is an IRS agent or their lawyer.
no, and no.
WritersBeware: WRT, please send me all of your info. I will combine it with mine and create a new thread to ensure that this f*cking moron NEVER defrauds a single customer.
have fun in your new thread.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 30, 10, 04:08PM
| #138 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Major - could you pls explain the IRS situation?
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 30, 10, 04:09PM
| #139 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Editor75 - yes, we know who you are working with
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| Major |
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Edited by: Major Dec 30, 10, 04:23PM
| #140 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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WRT: Major - could you pls explain the IRS situation?
What 'rogerb' wrote makes sense to me, especially after reading Editor75's posts again keeping rogerb's comments in mind. You answered:
WRT: No - it is looking into independant contractirs who do not declare their income.
I guess the IRS prefers to have one company that works with 500 writers (that they wish to name 'employees') accountable for paying taxes of those 500 writers rather than to individually hunt for 500 contractors to make sure they pay their own taxes as independent contractors (and not write off their legitimate expenses, like their own computers, offices, insurance, sub-contractors etc.).
I know it makes absolutely no sense and is in fact impossible to treat writers as employees in this virtual industry, but if you look how Editor75 has been trying to push his ridiculous ideas it may be clear what his agenda is.
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| editor75 |
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Dec 30, 10, 04:43PM
| #141 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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break out the tinfoil hats. once again, we're getting nowhere.
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 30, 10, 04:44PM
| #142 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: we're getting nowhere
You are about to sink like a rock, Batul.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 30, 10, 04:44PM
| #143 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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I see.
Our general consul/partner/lawyer insists that since we have so many American writers and customers, we have to set up in the States as well and declare all monies generated from and paid to individuals in the States :(
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| Major |
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Dec 30, 10, 04:47PM
| #144 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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FreelanceWriter: Again, who's "we"?
FreelanceWriter asked this question at least twice and was ignored.
Now it makes sense to conclude "We" = "the IRS."
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| Major |
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Edited by: Major Dec 30, 10, 04:54PM
| #145 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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WRT: we have to set up in the States as well and declare all monies generated from and paid to individuals in the States :(
Not only that, you'd also have to withhold taxes from all writers living around the world. That means, instead of paying them, let's say $13 per page you could only afford to pay them $7-$8 per page to cover the additional and unfair taxes and administrative fees. That also means you would only be able to work with ESL writers.
I guess it's a win-win situation for fraudulent companies and unqualified writers.
But the good news is this is not going to happen, in most cases at least.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 30, 10, 04:57PM
| #146 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Ok - now I can breathe easy :)
He's from ilinois so, of course, partial to US. But it makes sense - money generated within the US has to be declared within the US.
Major - read centralpark on the same topic ...
As for ESL writers - we tried and, almost two years later, only 6 worked out - real pros, excellent English and wonderful writing skills. BUT 6 were all we could come up with.
Want I can't understand is that as soon as we reject one (no choice) , we find ourselves on the receiving end of abusive emails.
A member here sent in her application. She did not upload the requisite docs (proof of nationality and academic degree). Multiple reminders and nothing ... application was, naturally, rejected and the response has to be read to be believed :) apparently , we rejected her because of our racism and laziness :) she advised me to jump in a lake and called the wrath of the Heavens doen upon me :)
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 30, 10, 05:11PM
| #147 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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I have to remind you that this isn't "guess who I am" (as fun and funny as this game is).
this is "should companies treat independent freelance writers as their employees?"
and "can we establish a set group of minimum standards for writer treatment which can be installed industry-wide?"
"we" is anyone who has anything constructive to add.
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| Major |
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Dec 30, 10, 05:15PM
| #148 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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WRT: now I can breathe easy :)
Not really; if they successfully (and fraudulently) classify the whole online writing industry in a way that they make companies to treat their virtual writers as 'employees' then no legitimate companies are safe.
But, again, no writer would be safe either and those writers who take orders on a sporadic basis today (I guess there are at least 60% of them) would have to try their luck in McDonald's instead.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 30, 10, 05:35PM
| #149 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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But that would be tantamount to overturning the whole at-will and independent service contractor concept - not to mention the relevant laws.
Basically, I truly believe it tine that the legits banded together. We need to establish an officially recognized industry regulatory board, headed by the industry's founders. Added, to they, we really need to work towards the elimination of the scsmmers and wannabes.
Preempt external intervention, etc.
Question for the Americans here: is your government/Obama veering towards socialism?!
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 30, 10, 06:17PM
| #150 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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editor75: yes; the latter entity in your comparison is a myth.
WHY? You don't ever bother making the argument! For the record: Is $3 CPP different from $6 different from $12? You've conceded that someone making $100 CPP is not exploited. What CPP or income is high enough for you to not think there's exploitation? And do you think that freelancers in other fields are exploited just because they don't have health insurance? And what about people working in countries where health insurance is provided? For God's sakes, your ideas are so mind-numbingly simplistic...
As regards capitalism and socialism: Capitalism is also a desperately failed economic system, responsible for ecological destruction, imperialism, war and omnicidal threats. I think it's transparently obvious that we need to seek out new forms, neither Stalinist/Leninist forms nor capitalist forms. Doesn't seem terribly relevant, though...
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| editor75 |
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Dec 31, 10, 12:09PM
| #151 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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"companies that have minimum CPPs, don't charge fines, and have a very fair split."
I said that these companies were myths, because there is no such thing as a fair split in this industry. the writers are not organized, and have no power to dictate terms. when the company mangers are the ones setting the policy and dictating terms, there is no such thing as a fair split.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 31, 10, 12:11PM
| #152 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: I said that these companies were myths, because there is no such thing as a fair split in this industry. the writers are not organized, and have no power to dictate terms. when the company mangers are the ones setting the policy and dictating terms, there is no such thing as a fair split.
Open your own company and implement your asinine ideas or shut the **** up, Batul.
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 31, 10, 12:22PM
| #153 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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editor75: I said that these companies were myths, because there is no such thing as a fair split in this industry. the writers are not organized, and have no power to dictate terms. when the company mangers are the ones setting the policy and dictating terms, there is no such thing as a fair split.
And I'm telling you that claim requires EVIDENCE. Evidence which you have spent four pages of thread refusing to provide.
You have to prove, on the one hand, that what administrators and companies do doesn't require 50% off the top for overhead. You haven't bothered, so you're done, go away.
You have to prove, on the other, that writers are actually exploited and actually don't have power. You haven't bothered, writers here tell you otherwise, go away.
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| Major |
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Dec 31, 10, 12:42PM
| #154 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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editor75: the writers are not organized, and have no power to dictate terms.
Each and every writer has the power to dictate his/her own terms by writing either for him/herself and/or for a company.
By taking private projects writers get 100% of the paid amount. Maybe companies should get organized and claim a % from their earnings? Apparently freelance writers working independently are taking the companies' business (so they should pay a % of the work they do independently).
What about being independent? If you are organized you are no longer independent. And freelance writers WANT to be independent; if they didn't they would've gotten a 9-5 job and be a slave of their bosses.
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 31, 10, 01:00PM
| #155 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WritersBeware: Open your own company and implement your asinine ideas or shut the **** up, Batul.
I have more options than these. it's great, though-- now I'm in a shouting match with a bunch of company owners. their advice? open a company!
AmonsEssays: You have to prove, on the one hand, that what administrators and companies do doesn't require 50% off the top for overhead. You haven't bothered, so you're done, go away. You have to prove, on the other, that writers are actually exploited and actually don't have power. You haven't bothered, writers here tell you otherwise, go away.
I don't have to prove anything. if you have access to these numbers, as a company owner, you're in a much better position than I am to audit your books. if you want my services as an accountant, that does come with a charge. I have already made several suggestions for cost-cutting, all of which you have apparently overlooked.
as for writers being exploited and not having power, I don't have to prove that. anyone with eyes, a pulse, and an IQ over 90, can take one look at this industry and see that the writers are powerless to dictate policy. they are also increasingly scattered all over the world, and as such, are even more isolated. the cherry on the sundae is that they are derided and ridiculed, on these boards, by their employers.
Major: What about being independent? If you are organized you are no longer independent. And freelance writers WANT to be independent; if they didn't they would've gotten a 9-5 job and be a slave of their bosses.
I agree, but the shame of it is that they turned their back on this slave situation in the office world, and entered a parallel situation of fealty in the world of freelance writing.
being organized doesn't mean losing your status as an independent contractor, able to set your own hours, work at your own pace, not punch a time-clock, etc. it just means getting more powerful, so that you can make demands of management, and not just have them smirk and say, "I can't afford it."
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 31, 10, 01:46PM
| #156 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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Mod, please block editor75. This has gone far enough. She refuses to provide even the slightest evidence to support her mindless ramblings. Her insane drivel is horribly misleading and will certainly poison the minds of many thousands of people, writers and customers alike.
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 31, 10, 01:55PM
| #157 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WritersBeware: I hope you work out your issues with control and aggression. once again, this isn't "guess who I am." this is "should companies treat independent freelance writers as their employees?"
I don't know who you are, but your tone reminds me a little bit of my old gym teacher, Mr. Soufriere. that doesn't mean that I'm going to make a post accusing you of being him, though. it wouldn't make sense, and it would just make me look unbalanced.
speaking of unbalanced, when are writers going to realize that they are actually the ones holding the cards? if these companies don't have productive writers, everything stops.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 31, 10, 01:56PM
| #158 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: now we're getting somewhere!
"We" are staying here. "You" are leaving.
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| editor75 |
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Dec 31, 10, 02:38PM
| #159 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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you're right: I'm leaving. I have a New Year's Eve party to attend. don't wait up!
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 31, 10, 03:33PM
| #160 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: I have a New Year's Eve party to attend.
Yeah, it's also known as "Moron-Fest 2010." You're the guest of honor. SPEECH, SPEECH, SPEECH!
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