| editor75 |
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Dec 23, 10, 09:59PM
| #1 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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even writers who are satisfied with their situation could stand to look at a few uncomfortable facts. for example, why do companies encourage writers to take multiple projects which indicate long hours spent working (in the busy season especially), and yet refuse to consider them as full-time employees? without production, there are no customers.
managers... treat your key producers like other modern companies in the 21st century, and see what happens.
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| FreelanceWriter |
Writer |
Edited by: FreelanceWriter Dec 23, 10, 10:17PM
| #2 |
Joined: Oct 8, 08
Threads: 3
Posts: 656
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editor75: even writers who are satisfied with their situation could stand to look at a few uncomfortable facts. for example, why do companies encourage writers to take multiple projects which indicate long hours spent working (in the busy season especially), and yet refuse to consider them as full-time employees? without production, there are no customers.
You're clearly out of your mind. "Employee" status would mean that the companies could assign orders to me or require a specific volume of work as a condition of employment. As an independent contractor, I can take as much work as I want to; I can ignore any assignments I don't want to write; and I can work as much or as little as I please any day, week, or year without asking anybody's permission.
Nobody ever "encourages" me to do anything I don't want to (except maybe by sometimes offering me more money to take on especially difficult papers or to handle work for family and friends of the company). They provide an assignment board to which I can log on (or not) anytime I wish. If I want to write 1 paper per week or 7 papers in a day, that's entirely my business and my decision. If you've ever actually done this job professionally, you know that whether it's freelance or contract work, we almost always have multiple deadlines every single day of our lives.
I'm getting the sense that you're someone who barely even works as a writer of any kind, maybe earning a few hundred dollars a month (if that) presuming to dole out "advice" on an industry you know nothing about to people who have actually been earning a fulltime salary doing this pretty successfully for years. You should probably spend way more time actually writing papers and way less time figuring out how to "improve" an industry that you're not even really a part of yet.
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| Major |
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Dec 23, 10, 11:02PM
| #3 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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editor75: treat your key producers like other modern companies in the 21st century
What exactly do you mean?
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| expertwriter |
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Dec 23, 10, 11:27PM
| #4 |
Joined: Dec 23, 10
Posts: 1
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At www.solvemyassignment.com, the premier provider of assignment solutions based out of India, the writers (INternational CFAs, Ph D (Finance) , MBAs and Chartered Accountants) are only taken as full-time employees...the company does not believe in outsourcing work to freelancers as it dilutes the work quality
http://www.solvemyassignment.com/p/work-with-us.html
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| Major |
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Edited by: Major Dec 23, 10, 11:31PM
| #5 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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expertwriter: based out of India
There are many examples of sites written by ESL writers (from India for example) that mix up the word 'employee' with 'freelance writer.' It doesn't mean they really treat them as 'employees' (nobody here knows the Indian system I guess).
Same applies to sites that pose to be based in the US or the UK and are in fact based in Ukraine or Pakistan (then they obviously don't care about the laws in the US/UK).
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| rogerb |
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Dec 23, 10, 11:47PM
| #6 |
Joined: Jun 26, 10
Threads: 5
Posts: 27
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I agree with FreelanceWriter (is it the first time? lol). I must admit I also take orders from various essay agencies (at the same time I'm trying to get my own sites off the ground and get more private clients, but that's not that easy :(. I was never told to take an assignment I didn't like or login to the panel at particular date or time, or even take a minimum number of assignments. Freedom of working as a freelance writer on my own conditions is what keeps me cooperating with essay agencies. I re/start working on my own sites during the slow seasons like now but then give them up once the busy season starts to stick with companies :).
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| FreelanceWriter |
Writer |
Dec 24, 10, 12:46AM
| #7 |
Joined: Oct 8, 08
Threads: 3
Posts: 656
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rogerb: I agree with FreelanceWriter (is it the first time? lol).
Not for nuthin', Rog, but if this is really the first post of mine that you agree with, advertising that fact doesn't exactly enhance your intellectual credibility here.
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 24, 10, 06:40AM
| #8 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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FreelanceWriter: I realize that you are at-will employed, but this does not mean that you don't deserve medical coverage, paid vacations, etc.
FreelanceWriter: you know nothing about to people who have actually been earning a fulltime salary doing this pretty successfully for years.
it's not really about elitism or denial, as much as it is about recognizing mistreatment here is a holistic, industry-wide practice which we need to address and combat.
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| FreelanceWriter |
Writer |
Dec 24, 10, 12:00PM
| #9 |
Joined: Oct 8, 08
Threads: 3
Posts: 656
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editor75: FreelanceWriter: I realize that you are at-will employed, but this does not mean that you don't deserve medical coverage, paid vacations, etc.
Again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about; you're using terminology that don't even understand. "At-will-employees" are still employees, just without a contract. They still have mandatory hours and assignments, and they get benefits. Those of us who actually work in the industry that you're pretending to know something about are independent contractors, not "at-will employees."
editor75: it's not really about elitism or denial, as much as it is about recognizing mistreatment here is a holistic, industry-wide practice which we need to address and combat.
Who's "we"? You're obviously not even part of this industry; that's the only thing I'm "denying." It's not "elitist" to suggest that people who've never really worked in an industry or who barely work in an industry are not qualified to be giving "advice" about it to people who know much more about it than they do. I'm not "exploited" and I compete directly with my "employer" by doing as much freelance work as I can. I choose to continue to work for them for all of the reasons that Pheelyks and I have both already explained. Unlike you, he's also actually really a part of this industry that you obviously know next to nothing about. (Merry Christmas, that "next to" is your gift from me.)
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| Major |
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Dec 24, 10, 12:41PM
| #10 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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FreelanceWriter: I'm not "exploited" and I compete directly with my "employer" by doing as much freelance work as I can.
Exactly; why is it hard for the topic starter to understand? :)
editor75: you don't deserve medical coverage, paid vacations, etc.
Working as a full-time contract writer you can take vacations at any time you want without even informing anyone. Paid vacations or medical coverage? You'd like to base it on what exactly? Like you take or get 1 page a week then you should have how much 'paid vacations' - if you don't do any project in a month, you still want paid vacations?
The whole essay writing industry is based on per-project or per-page payment terms, if you still pretend not to know it ;).
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 24, 10, 01:32PM
| #11 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: FreelanceWriter: I realize that you are at-will employed, but this does not mean that you don't deserve medical coverage, paid vacations, etc.
Nonsense. You want medical coverage? Get a brick-and-mortar job and be physically present under your employer's watchful eye.
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 25, 10, 04:53PM
| #12 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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Companies should treat their independent freelance writers WELL. If they could work out a way of treating independent writers as employees that was ethical and fair to all parties, that'd be fine, I suppose, but the point is that they don't rip them off.
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| editor75 |
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Dec 26, 10, 10:30AM
| #13 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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Major: What exactly do you mean?
I mean that the producer of goods should be shown some well-deserved respect, for a change, industry-wide.
FreelanceWriter: not "at-will employees."
I hate to disagree with someone who thinks that they know everything. fine... I agree, as a "F/T independent contractor," maybe you don't deserve benefits and perks.
WritersBeware: Nonsense. You want medical coverage?
I know; how dare anyone want medical coverage?
F/T writers do deserve such things as respect, medical, paid leave, comp, etc. and just think... if a group (not a "membership fee" scam or a loose confederation, but an organized group) got together, started talking about it, organized, and formed a power capable of cutting off the means of production industry-wide, they could control the future of these outcomes.
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| Major |
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Dec 26, 10, 11:19AM
| #14 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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editor75: I mean that the producer of goods should be shown some well-deserved respect, for a change, industry-wide.
I guess that is something all legitimate companies agree on and respect. 80-90% of all complaints posted here or on other similar websites are made by writers who have accounts with foreign/uncivilized companies that try to take advantage of them.
editor75: writers do deserve such things as respect, medical, paid leave, comp
I agree about respect. All other things absolutely cannot apply to independent contractors who work on their own schedule, premises, and conditions. FREEDOM of work (outside of the control of the company) as an independent freelance writer has much more benefits than any other 'perks' that cannot even be established or calculated.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 11:30AM
| #15 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Editor75:
Do you know the difference between an independent service contractor and a full-time employee? It is clear that you do not
1) as an independent service contractor you are not salaried; yes, you will be represented on the payroll when money is owed for work performed but, you are not salaried
2) as a nonsalaried independent service contractor, you are not entitled to healthcare or any other benefits
You work at will and only if admin believes you capable of undertaking a certain project.
You do not have fixed working hours.
You do not have a set of duties to perform
You are not exclusive.
You are not entitled to form a union. This is not a "workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains" world. Some freelancers are indispensable and they tend to be happy and not make the stupid arguments you are forwarding here. Others are very very dispensable.
Form your own little union of wannabe writers/definite twits. You will never have any legal standing and won't ever be recognized in those countries where employees have rights.
Let's stop tiptoeing around the real problem here and let's be honest for once (irrespective of how un-PC it may be). Thanks to the EW, AR, etc bunch, the industry is flooded with non native speakers who are barely educated and have no business writing in English (don't get me wrong, there are some excellent non-native writers out there - truly excellent). This group knows nothing of the Western education system (let alone the differences between them), has little, if any respect for Western values and culture and yet, wants our market and our legal entitlements. In the age of globalization, no problem BUT first get to understand and respect the market you want to enter and, at the very very least, respect its values.
As it is, this is nothing but a greedy, vampirish, parasitical proposal.
Go form your union. Before doing do, find gainful employment. Maybe we'll then be spared your nonsensical drivel.
Are you serious?! Healthcare?! Don't you want retirement benefits as well?
Work, make money and take out your own private healthcare plan - on your penny, not ours.
This is not a "money for nothing and the chicks for free world."
Get real or seek professional help.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 11:48AM
| #16 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Major - for the first time ever, I disagree with you. Only the good writers - the true pros - deserve respect. All others deserve to be permanently banned from the industry.
Why should we respect writers who show customers (and the company which took them on) the utmost disrespect through the provision of shoddy, plagiarized or barely legible work?
Why should we respect writers who were quite healthy a couple of hours before a deadline but are suddenly hospitalised?
Why should we respect writers whose hard disks constantly breakdown at the last minute?
We all know the excuses ... do these writers deserve respect?
The professional ones do. Professional writers actually inform admin when they can't complete a paper (do so only rarely) and are honest about it. These are the ones who deserve our respect and whom we MUST respect.
I am really not doing very well in this season of good will and brotherly love :(
Sorry about that :(
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 26, 10, 12:10PM
| #17 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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WRT: Are you serious?! Healthcare?! Don't you want retirement benefits as well?
Yeah, and don't forget essay company stock options.
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 26, 10, 12:13PM
| #18 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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WRT: You are not entitled to form a union. This is not a "workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains" world. Some freelancers are indispensable and they tend to be happy and not make the stupid arguments you are forwarding here. Others are very very dispensable. Form your own little union of wannabe writers/definite twits. You will never have any legal standing and won't ever be recognized in those countries where employees have rights.
WRT: Given the questionable nature of the entire industry, I think that Editor isn't asking for a legally recognized union, but just a number of writers who, if one of them is burnt, the whole group strikes or refuses to work for a company. It's not a bad idea at all.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 26, 10, 12:17PM
| #19 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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AmonsEssays: WRT: Given the questionable nature of the entire industry, I think that Editor isn't asking for a legally recognized union, but just a number of writers who, if one of them is burnt, the whole group strikes or refuses to work for a company. It's not a bad idea at all.
What gives "Editor" the right to label all companies as "fraudulent" based strictly on his/her incredibly limited experience with ONLY the industry's established fraudsters?
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 12:20PM
| #20 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Your proposal is one which many are considering. But, you are misreading editor75 who specifically demanded unionisation, paid leave, healthcare, etc. Amons - as a site owner, can you afford that? None of us can.
Another proposal which several are considering is the formation of a shared database of BAD and unemployable writers.
Yes - the bad companies must be outted but so must be the writers who have no place in this industry.
WB - must you plant ideas in their bird brains? We will be hearing about stock options soon :(
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 26, 10, 12:28PM
| #21 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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WritersBeware: What gives "Editor" the right to label all companies as "fraudulent" based strictly on his/her incredibly limited experience with ONLY the industry's established fraudsters?
I'm not saying he is or should, I'm just saying that it's not a bad idea for writers, particularly the lower tier of writers, to coordinate. If the ESL writers demanded more money per page, and could enforce that with a union, then dishonest companies who hire and exploit these ESL writers would a) consider hiring more English writers since the cost difference would be lower and b) would see lower profit margins. I think it'd be a good thing.
WRT: Your proposal is one which many are considering. But, you are misreading editor75 who specifically demanded unionisation, paid leave, healthcare, etc. Amons - as a site owner, can you afford that? None of us can.
Yeah, that's a tiny bit silly. But let's say one essay company COULD get big enough to have consistent employees, leave, etc. That wouldn't be a terrible thing, though many people here do like being freelance (as do I). I of course can't afford that, but my business is pretty much just me except for rush seasons.
But I was saying that Editor's idea, though some components are silly, is not entirely a bad idea. You've already sort of started that at EssayChat. I'd like to know a list of trustworthy companies that I could refer clients to if I felt I couldn't take their assignment, and you've given me a good number already. That's the start of it.
I'd say, though, that the union would have to make sure that it had at least SOME standards. I'd say from my experience there are two tiers of ESL writers, from what I've seen. (I've edited the work of both types).
One writes incomprehensible garbage. They shouldn't be writing for anyone. Whether it's the language or they're just not that smart, the papers have absolutely no merit worth salvaging.
The other makes consistent mistakes in grammar, vocabulary, spelling, etc., but actually put out a decent product in terms of research, creative thinking, argumentation, etc. If the union collaborated on making their work higher quality too, they could actually put out something that would be acceptable. In any respect, if that second tier coordinated in a union, it would probably improve the whole industry.
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 26, 10, 12:37PM
| #22 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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Major: independent contractors who work on their own schedule, premises, and conditions
I agree; they are also expected to work F/T hours. a page-count/hour-count formula seems variable, but I expect that many freelancers work more than the traditional 40 F/T hours per week, especially when it's very busy. true; they have the freedom to refuse assignments, telecommute, take unpaid vacations, etc... and are worth much more, as they essentially control the means of production. the base of the pyramid is its strongest part.
WRT: You are not entitled to form a union.
I am just trying to bring some issues out for discussion; I'm not sure who you are to list my entitlements.
WRT: Are you serious?! Healthcare?! Don't you want retirement benefits as well?
I am serious, and yes, I do think that writers should have pensions, as well as overtime pay.
WRT: Get real or seek professional help.
thanks for your concern. I understand that everyone has their own interests. what you may need, based on my own presumptions about your status in this industry, i.e.
WRT: Why should we respect writers who were quite healthy a couple of hours before a deadline but are suddenly hospitalised?
...
WRT: I am really not doing very well in this season of good will and brotherly love :( Sorry about that :(
maybe you feel guilty for being so vituperative about the backbone of your industry. karma is nothing to take lightly, especially over the holidays.
I agree that there are problematic aspects to what I am proposing. it is an organic thing. I am not claiming any kind of ownership or selling any snake-oil. I am trying to talk about fair work for fair pay.
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| Major |
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Dec 26, 10, 12:52PM
| #23 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 504
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editor75: they are also expected to work F/T hours.
Companies may 'hope' them to be available when they need them, but they are not expected or ordered to work any particular hours. If you hire a contractor to fix your basement you hope he'll do the job when you're at work so that you don't have to see the mess, but if contractor tells you he tends to sleep until 2pm and he usually starts working afternoon then your hope or 'expectations' mean nothing.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 26, 10, 12:53PM
| #24 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Writers who work for good companies are treated very very well.
My interest? The majority owner of a company and a writer.
No - we cannot pay writers the rates we pay, give the top performers end of season bonuses AND extend them
Paid vacations
Healthcare retirement benefits etc etc
You are proposing the annihilation of the industry.
If you are a good writer, work with the legits and you'll know what many here are talking about.
As for karma ... I hope you are right as I honestly believe that the deliberately irresponsible writers (not to mention scammers) should go under ...
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 01:01PM
| #25 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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Overtime? You are paid per page and the tighter the deadline,the higher your rate per page. Any who work for us, pls call me a liar if, based on you experience,we do not pay $9 minimum to $25+ per page, based on deadlines and degree of difficulty. Pls call me a liar if any of our top performers here (on this board) do not receive seasonal bonuses.
By the way - we are not an exception and the legits who have been in this industry longer than us do even more than that.
All,however, will draw the line at
Overtime
Paid vacations
Retirement benefits
Healthcare plans
Do you have a regular mechanic? If you do, pay his healthcare coverage, set him up with a retirement plan,give him overtime and then come here and lecture us ...
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 26, 10, 01:28PM
| #26 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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WRT: Writers who work for good companies are treated very very well. My interest? The majority owner of a company and a writer. No - we cannot pay writers the rates we pay, give the top performers end of season bonuses AND extend them Paid vacations Healthcare retirement benefits etc etc You are proposing the annihilation of the industry. If you are a good writer, work with the legits and you'll know what many here are talking about. As for karma ... I hope you are right as I honestly believe that the deliberately irresponsible writers (not to mention scammers) should go under ...
WRT is right. Do you know how many WRITERS of ANY kind, even really successful ones, are given guaranteed medical, paid vacation, etc.? It's just not the industry. When you're freelance, you get the advantages of setting your own hours, not having to take taxes out of paychecks, working wherever you want, etc. You get the disadvantage of not having insurance provided by the employer, not having paid vacation, not having an IRA, having to handle your own taxes and reporting of income and accounting, etc.
If a company COULD provide, say, lower per-page rates, or an hourly rate using a browser-locking and timing program, or by having workers come in, or whatever, and then provide insurance, paid leave, etc., that'd be just fine. Just know that many here would not work for that company even if it existed.
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| editor75 |
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Dec 26, 10, 01:31PM
| #27 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WRT: No - we cannot pay writers the rates we pay, give the top performers end of season bonuses AND extend them Paid vacations Healthcare retirement benefits etc etc You are proposing the annihilation of the industry.
no one is collective bargaining with you yet, but when that day comes, here's hoping
that you won't be the mouthpiece of your company
that you will be kind and considerate of your workers' interests
that you will demonstrate negotiating skills rather than elitist attacks
etc etc.
your talk about annihilation only shows that you will consider industry-wide standardization of ethical worker treatment as a threat.
btw-- talking about hypothetical specifics-- vacations, overtime, etc., (why not, while we're talking about mechanics, a company car?)-- may not be appropriate right now. I'd like to focus less on the relativity of ethical treatment of F/T employees, and more on how writers can get together and start forming a collective of shared interests.
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| AmonsEssays |
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Dec 26, 10, 01:38PM
| #28 |
Joined: Dec 8, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 201
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editor75: no one is collective bargaining with you yet, but when that day comes, here's hoping that you won't be the mouthpiece of your company that you will be kind and considerate of your workers' interests that you will demonstrate negotiating skills rather than elitist attacks etc etc.
Uhhhhh... why? WRT has actually been very patient with you.
The fact is that, even if a company WANTED to do all you say, they CAN'T without making those writers employees!
editor75: your talk about annihilation only shows that you will consider industry-wide standardization of ethical worker treatment as a threat.
You transparently can't reply to actual arguments.
WRT's point is that you can pay writers EXCELLENTLY, letting them earn FAR above a working wage. I can tell you from personal experience: I work less hours than I ever have at "regular" jobs and make FAR more. Yes, this does mean I don't have health insurance or paid vacation or what not, but that's what FREELANCERS and contractors of all kinds deal with. NOTHING is unethical about that per se.
What is unethical is when companies pay writers $3-5 per page for heavily researched work so that they can only complete two to four pages an hour, when they effectively provide writers a poverty-level salary AND no benefits etc. That's what a writer's union should address. Benefits would be nice if it could happen, but I can tell you as a small writing business that I CANNOT afford to give writers paid vacations.
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 26, 10, 02:14PM
| #29 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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editor75: they are also expected to work F/T hours
Seriously, you don't have a clue. They are not "expected" to do any such thing. There are no set hours per day, week, month, or year for freelance writers. Please stop typing now.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 02:20PM
| #30 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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With bonuses, etc ... our writers get 50to 55% of what we make.
We have staff employees which we must pay from our own share
We have server maintenance fees, an entire IT department, etc.
We have overheads.
We pay corporate taxes.
And you are proposing that we provide service contractors (people who do not work exclusively for us or have a set of prescribed daily duties to perform during specified hours)
Paid vacations
Overtime
Healthcare
Retirement plans
Where on earth would we get the money?
You are talking about our annihilation, no two ways about it.
Get real ...
Talk about fair pay - refuse to work for companies which fine or underpay writers
Talk about companies which side with customers even if the writer is completely in the right
Talk about companies which are not supportive of their good writers
Talk about companies which do not pay their writers
BUT DO NOT ASK THOSE OF US WHO DO OUR UTMOST TO SUPPORT OUR WRITERS AND PAY THEM VERY FAIRLY TO D MORE THAN WHAT WE ARE DOING!
In the true spirit of Boxing Day, Editor75 is another I want to box :)
Go away ...
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| editor75 |
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Dec 26, 10, 02:28PM
| #31 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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I am just posing things like insurance, etc. as an example. they may come further down the road, of course. we should establish minimum standard rights and a modicum of respect, first.
I don't have all the answers. but I wonder what some of these minimum standards could be, such as:
cost per page minimum
minimum cost per page increases relative to quick-turnaround deadlines
page-per-week cap, with attendant "overtime" (unfortunately this word only approximates the concept)
before moving on to more "ambitious" goals (taken for granted in every other industry with F/T employees that isn't run by hypocrites hiding behind their moth-eaten pockets), like
paid vacation and sick days
pay raises based on number of repeat/request customers
shared royalties on work that is resold by the company
understanding for sudden medical emergencies
etc.
owners: don't be thieves. be ethical towards the people who produce the majority of what you sell.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 02:45PM
| #32 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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The rights due to freelancers are non negotiable:
1) fines are illegal
2) writers should be paid their due
3) for research work, $10 should be the minimum (i will accept $8-9 as ok with regards to startup writers -first level writers)
4) fast turnaround - $15-25 depending on complexity
Established writers with a good track record should have the right to ask for an advance (they've built trust). That, however, is completely up to individuals companies and is not a sign of legitimacy or lack of.
Writers must be treated with respect by admin and customers. They should also treat customers and admin with respect.
Writers should know who the admin/managers are and how to contact them - real names and not fake ones.
Writers should know how to officially contact the company in case of legal disputes.
Professional writers are an invaluable asset and should be afforded all possible admin/management support.
But, do not ever expect
Overtime
Healthcare coverage
Retirement plans
Stock options :)
Paid leave
You are independent service contractors not contracted employees ... World of legal difference.
editor75: owners: don't be thieves. be ethical towards the people who produce the majority of what you sell.
You clueless,idiotic moron. Don't you dare lump us all together and call us thieves. You keep overstepping and overstepping ... you cross one red line after the other.
Ok - we are thieves. Get out of the industry and leave the forum.
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 26, 10, 03:03PM
| #33 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WRT: You clueless,idiotic moron
take my ideas, re-represent them with your own, and then call me an idiot-- it's a perfect metaphor for how companies like yours treat their writers.
--and you have some nerve, telling people what to expect. 100% of your business and customer loyalty is derived from your primary resource: your staff of research writers. you'll give them the bare minimum, won't you, and you'll still suspect they're cheating and lying to you. I'm trying to talk about collectivization and organization-- and what are you doing? reacting to that? feeling guilty about being a Scrooge over Xmas-time. well, let me know when you have something original and non-divisive to add.
writers should expect a lot more. they build and sustain this industry. anyone who does not produce content is a vampire with an angle, and excuses.
there will be less time to talk when the scales are even, and you have to listen to demands, rather than just respond with amusing polemics to a hypothetical scenario. until then, I suggest you take that list of minimum standards, apply it immediately to your own company, and stop suspecting that your staff is lying to you. give them some credit. think of where you'd be...
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 03:16PM
| #34 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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I stole from you? This is an actionable claim. Back it up or shut the FU.
Ok - we now have the right to uncover your true identity. After all, you claim that we, as a company, stole from you. That is libel and as a couple here (ran away from the forum) know, we take libel very very seriously.
We like the law. You like to adhere to it and use it to protect ourselves.
So ... two choices
1) prove that we stole from you
2) apologise and retract
Mods - editor75 has made a serious claim. Either IT bavks that ludicrous claim or it is going to be 'no holds barred' field day ...
Too late to edit out the part where you claimed that we stole from you. Have the screenshot :)
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 26, 10, 03:23PM
| #35 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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WRT
what are you talking about? are you feeling threatened? look, I'm not trying to alarm you. no one is at your gates with torches. no one can put a plan together if we can't share ideas.
I'm just trying to talk about writers getting together, forming a collective of minimum standards. in fact, some of your ideas are good; here, I'll "steal" one of them.
no fines for writers
and add it to one of mine
paid leave for jury duty, illness, family illness, etc., 2 weeks/year
I don't care; no one owns these ideas. jumble them around all you want. I don't see what you're getting all puffed up about lawyers for, but whomever Mod is, I hope they can also get you to stop calling me names, and make more of these semi-productive lists. you have some OK ideas; I'd like to hear more from Amon as well about what minimum standards could be.
also, I'd like to hear from anyone with legal experience, or lawyers on the board, about how companies can strongly encourage or assign writers to do a certain number of pages a week, which equates to more than 40 hours of work, and then not
1. pay them overtime
or
2. consider them F/T employees
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| WritersBeware |
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Dec 26, 10, 03:27PM
| #36 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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Editor75, you are wasting forum space. Your arguments are absolutely ridiculous. You clearly don't understand the concepts of at-will and freelance employment, so debating with you is futile.
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| editor75 |
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Edited by: editor75 Dec 26, 10, 03:30PM
| #37 |
Joined: Dec 18, 10
Threads: 6
Posts: 999
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I just want to talk about what I think is right for the writers. if that's ridiculous to you, maybe you have some better ideas. I think what we're doing now is establishing minimum standards, as a sort of base-line. do you have a comment to make about that?
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Dec 26, 10, 03:36PM
| #38 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,678
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Bottom line: if you knowingly work for fraudsters (or are too lazy/stupid to research a particular company before taking on projects), you DESERVE every bit of abuse that you receive. If morons would simply stop working for fraudulent companies, the fraudulent companies would fold. Only the legit companies would remain.
There is nothing more to discuss.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Dec 26, 10, 03:37PM
| #39 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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You did say that we, as a company, stole from you. Back it up. Don't backtrack ... back up your libellous claim or apologise. Your call. I don't joke around about things like this - I like the law and use it to the maximum :)
Yes, Amons, what do you think about this demand:
Company cars for freelance writers working in a virtual environment.
Yes, editor, that was one of your incredibly stupid proposals:)
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Edited by: WRT Dec 26, 10, 03:45PM
| #40 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,850
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When we put a plan together (and even though I've been in this industry for 15 years) - I refer to those more knowledgeable than me
WritersBeware
Major
I won't work on any sort of plan with a clueless moron.
Well-founded, solid and implementable plans come from listening to people who know and deferring to their proposals. The two I named are the ones in the 'know' - the ones the industry needs for any sort of plan to work.
Why refer to someone as clueless as you?
Company car
Paid leave
Overtime
Health insurance
Retirement plans
Two weeks paid vacation
Have I missed any of your dumber than dumb ideas?
YOU ARE NOT A CONTRACTED EMPLOYEE? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT OR NOT?
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