Why protect American students when you know majority of clients are from ESL countries?

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What you're asking isn't even remotely clear, but if you're suggesting that ESL customers want ESL writers, you're usually mistaken.

There is definitely a place for ESL writers in this industry. They need to be honest with themselves and with their customers about their skill level, however. For instance, ESL customers that hire you as a writer need to be aware that their papers will have many errors in grammar, syntax, and word usage. If this is what they want, then you're the right writer for them. If they want something written in academically correct English, you're not.

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munywab:

The question/concern was clear.

No, it wasn't. And it still isn't, because instead of trying to clarify when you're told you're being unclear, you react like an arrogant ass and assume that because you know what you meant everyone else will, too. that's not how language works.

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First, a missed capitalization has nothing to do with grammar; second, that's really teh best you can come up with?

Joined: Oct 1, 11
Posts: 97

Saw that one coming from a mile off. Tsk tsk ...

Munywab, what exactly are you asking in your original post? O.o

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haha, pwned.

muny, the answer to your question is: people here are trying to "protect American students" because the internet opened up a big external change in the paper mill market. it's a brave new world, but the entrenched US/UK companies are scared. there are writers out there who are literate in various forms of post-colonial English, write for cheaper prices, and often produce copy that is indistinguishable in quality... not that quality matters in this industry anyway, since the customer has no legal recourse.

when idiots like pheelyks say, "there's definitely a place for ESL writers," as if they're politely making a concession, it's hilarious... the "place" to which he's referring is, in his mind, the "back of the bus..." but he doesn't even realize who's driving.

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editor75:

editor75

LOSER

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editor75:

the only kind of ESL writer you're comfortable with is a fawning, self-hating toady

....and one more completely illogical inference. I think people should be honest about what they can offer, so ESL writers pretending to be native speakers is a bad thing. Do you disagree?

Joined: Dec 18, 10
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ESL writers are writers, first and foremost. they are just as likely to be horrible at English as native speakers, in this industry... or even a little less so, I'd imagine, since they have the wherewithal to know at least 2 languages to begin with. if there's going to be disclosure, it should be equal-- if MeoKhan has to disclose English as his 2nd language, you, pheelyks, should have to notify clients that you are a native speaker who still stumbles over the use of simple contractions.

Meo, honesty has nothing to do with it. look at the industry-- it's based on lies. talking about the primacy of honesty in such an environment is absurd. you're right about one thing-- it's about skill. that's all. that you preemptively tell your clients that you are not a native English speaker is either a lie or a further form of pathetic self-abasement... judging by your conduct on this forum, I would guess the latter.

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editor75:

they are just as likely to be horrible at English as native speakers, in this industry...

Based on the evidence on this board and what I witnessed working at UVO, I completely disagree. What are you basing this claim on?

editor75:

you, pheelyks, should have to notify clients that you are a native speaker who still stumbles over the use of simple contractions.

Other than the occasional "you're/your" screwup, which I'll admit is a fairly basic error (and one not very likely to occur in academic papers, where personal pronouns aren't used), care to provide an example?

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editor75:

WB-- I'm still waiting for Academon to lower the boom. have you made that phone call yet?

As I told you previously, LOSER, your Acdn account does so little (if any) sales that I deemed it not worth the extra effort involved in getting it banned. You're an extremely small fish, Rusty. Initially, I thought it would be a worthwhile venture, but I should have known that you were LYING when you claimed that you had "thousands of dollars" in your Academon account. I revel in your failure, struggles, and ineptitude.

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WritersBeware:

Moron . . . . Th

as usual

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editor75:

WB-- you might have been able to help shut down a couple of overseas spam-companies

Ah, so what happened to your previous claims about me having "no teeth" and "no power" to follow through on my promises?

editor75:

I dare you to make good on your word.

Well, I do like a challenge. Considering that you've outright ASKED me to help get your "4years" account shut down, I will oblige.

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okay, WB-- no changing your mind this time. and while you try in vain to make good on your boast, or think up a new excuse to get out of it, I'll make sure to update you every time I get a payment from Academon.

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pheelyks:

What gave you that idea?

phyleeks+wB+moekhan=same moron

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pheelyks:

What gave you that idea?

pheelyks:

if you mean I don't realize there are companies making lots of money through the work of their writers

Either of your quotes answers the other. The writer might be Phyleeks and the company might be ESL-owned. Not every hospital-owner has done medicine.

Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,669

pheelyks:

It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code.

Don't you recognize the finest Swahili-English when you see it? He's a master . . .

Joined: Oct 1, 11
Posts: 97

WritersBeware:

bator.

In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter.

Joined: May 21, 11
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Posts: 115

pheelyks:

None of this makes any sense. It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code.

Meaning you either never understand because of your close-mindedness or because you are just a moron, never to understand in the near future when the thickest will be understanding.

Looser, you must be feeling the heat of an industry being taken by what you never thought would.

Guys, open up your eyes and see what is happening in this industry. Do not close yourselves up in essayscam. Get to hear the truth out there and you will be surprised how the four monkeys (WB, Phyleeks, meo...whoever and its...whatever) fail to acknowledge.

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WritersBeware:

pheelyks Yesterday, 03:43PM | #31
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Reply Quote
munywab:
Either of your quotes answers the other. The writer might be Phyleeks and the company might be ESL-owned. Not every hospital-owner has done medicine.

None of this makes any sense. It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code.
WritersBeware Edited by: WritersBeware Yesterday, 04:35PM | #32
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Reply Quote
pheelyks:
It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code.

Don't you recognize the finest Swahili-English when you see it? He's a master . . .
WritersBeware Yesterday, 04:37PM | #33
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 134
Posts: 7,816

Reply Quote bator.
itsme Yesterday, 04:57PM | #34
Joined: Oct 1, 11
Posts: 64

Reply Quote
WritersBeware:
bator.

In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter.
WritersBeware Yesterday, 07:56PM | #35
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Reply Quote
itsme:
In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter.

Don't count him out just yet. He's that stupid.

I agree. Same person, same thoughts, same words, same moron. Stop wasting too much time to recover. Go and utilize your writing talent working for an ESL. I hope you read Gates' words about who works for who. Lol.

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munywab:

the four monkeys (WB, Phyleeks, meo...whoever and its...whatever)

You are calling somebody else a monkey?

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I posted and someone msg to me.	China-based company is using this site to try and drum-up writers...

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 5, 11, 06:00AM \| #1
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	Why protect American students when you know majority of clients are from ESL countries?

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 5, 11, 10:41AM \| #2
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	What you're asking isn't even remotely clear, but if you're suggesting that ESL customers want ESL writers, you're usually mistaken. There is definitely a place for ESL writers in this industry. They need to be honest with themselves and with their customers about their skill level, however. For instance, ESL customers that hire you as a writer need to be aware that their papers will have many errors in grammar, syntax, and word usage. If this is what they want, then you're the right writer for them. If they want something written in academically correct English, you're not.

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 5, 11, 01:18PM \| #3
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	munywab: if you're suggesting that ESL customers want ESL writers Your major problem is in assumptions. The question/concern was clear.

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 5, 11, 02:35PM \| #4
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	munywab: The question/concern was clear. No, it wasn't. And it still isn't, because instead of trying to clarify when you're told you're being unclear, you react like an arrogant ass and assume that because you know what you meant everyone else will, too. that's not how language works.

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 7, 11, 07:07AM \| #5
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	pheelyks: that's That is not how grammar works.

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 7, 11, 12:31PM \| #6
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	First, a missed capitalization has nothing to do with grammar; second, that's really teh best you can come up with?

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 7, 11, 12:55PM \| #7
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	pheelyks: teh I understand.

itsme		Oct 7, 11, 01:01PM \| #8
Joined: Oct 1, 11 Posts: 97	Saw that one coming from a mile off. Tsk tsk ... Munywab, what exactly are you asking in your original post? O.o

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 7, 11, 03:02PM \| #9
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	munywab: pheelyks: teh I understand. Good. I'm glad you understand. I type fast and make mistakes. A lot. Your point?

editor75		Oct 7, 11, 06:55PM \| #10
Joined: Dec 18, 10 Threads: 6 Posts: 999	haha, pwned. muny, the answer to your question is: people here are trying to "protect American students" because the internet opened up a big external change in the paper mill market. it's a brave new world, but the entrenched US/UK companies are scared. there are writers out there who are literate in various forms of post-colonial English, write for cheaper prices, and often produce copy that is indistinguishable in quality... not that quality matters in this industry anyway, since the customer has no legal recourse. when idiots like pheelyks say, "there's definitely a place for ESL writers," as if they're politely making a concession, it's hilarious... the "place" to which he's referring is, in his mind, the "back of the bus..." but he doesn't even realize who's driving.

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 7, 11, 07:13PM \| #11
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	editor75: when idiots like pheelyks say, "there's definitely a place for ESL writers," as if they're politely making a concession, it's hilarious... the "place" to which he's referring is, in his mind, the "back of the bus..." but he doesn't even realize who's driving. Back to more completely inane assertions and illogical inferences, I see. The "place" I'm referring to is the place writers like MeoKhan occupy--offering ESL essays to ESL students who want ESL essays. The reason this is their "place" is because it matches what they are able to offer. As for who's driving the bus, if you mean I don't realize there are companies making lots of money through the work of their writers, you're wrong. But we've been down this road before.

WritersBeware		Oct 7, 11, 07:17PM \| #12
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	editor75: editor75 LOSER

editor75		Edited by: editor75 Oct 7, 11, 09:05PM \| #13
Joined: Dec 18, 10 Threads: 6 Posts: 999	pheelyks: The "place" I'm referring to is the place writers like MeoKhan occupy dead on! the only kind of ESL writer you're comfortable with is a fawning, self-hating toady. WB-- I'm still waiting for Academon to lower the boom. have you made that phone call yet?

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 7, 11, 11:29PM \| #14
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	editor75: the only kind of ESL writer you're comfortable with is a fawning, self-hating toady ....and one more completely illogical inference. I think people should be honest about what they can offer, so ESL writers pretending to be native speakers is a bad thing. Do you disagree?

MeoKhan	Writer	Oct 8, 11, 08:07AM \| #15
Joined: Jan 9, 11 Threads: 4 Posts: 1,117	I would state that being honest is the most important thing. Second is your skills. I have already discussed that deviations cannot be completely removed from person's use of a language that is their 2nd language. It's possible only if the person learns it as a child. In this case the language may not be regarded as their 2nd lang. However, other skills such as syntax, usage, and prose can be controlled to an extent that it passes the standard benchmarks. The world is moving toward GlobEng - stressing the need of more and more deculturation (specially) in academic writing. Thus, Editor75, I am in business. However, I always clearly let my clients know of my country of origin, and that English is my 2nd language.

editor75		Oct 8, 11, 09:08AM \| #16
Joined: Dec 18, 10 Threads: 6 Posts: 999	ESL writers are writers, first and foremost. they are just as likely to be horrible at English as native speakers, in this industry... or even a little less so, I'd imagine, since they have the wherewithal to know at least 2 languages to begin with. if there's going to be disclosure, it should be equal-- if MeoKhan has to disclose English as his 2nd language, you, pheelyks, should have to notify clients that you are a native speaker who still stumbles over the use of simple contractions. Meo, honesty has nothing to do with it. look at the industry-- it's based on lies. talking about the primacy of honesty in such an environment is absurd. you're right about one thing-- it's about skill. that's all. that you preemptively tell your clients that you are not a native English speaker is either a lie or a further form of pathetic self-abasement... judging by your conduct on this forum, I would guess the latter.

itsme		Edited by: itsme Oct 8, 11, 10:16AM \| #17
Joined: Oct 1, 11 Posts: 97	That's kinda mean. :P Just because the industry is seen as dubious to begin with, is that really an excuse for the companies to be half-assed about the services they provide? I'm inclined to feel a bit sorry for the customers if that's the case. Don't get me wrong, I think it's awful that some students actually pay to have their homework written for them (although they are advised to use it as a guide, which some do I guess). I'm also not denying the fact that ESL writers can be perfectly competent. Still, the students are paying customers: don't they at least deserve the truth?

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 8, 11, 10:41AM \| #18
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	editor75: they are just as likely to be horrible at English as native speakers, in this industry... Based on the evidence on this board and what I witnessed working at UVO, I completely disagree. What are you basing this claim on? editor75: you, pheelyks, should have to notify clients that you are a native speaker who still stumbles over the use of simple contractions. Other than the occasional "you're/your" screwup, which I'll admit is a fairly basic error (and one not very likely to occur in academic papers, where personal pronouns aren't used), care to provide an example?

Heremeout	Writer	Oct 8, 11, 10:57AM \| #19
Joined: Sep 29, 11 Threads: 10 Posts: 249	pheelyks: ...because you know what you meant everyone else will, too. that's not how language works. After full-stop, always begin a new sentence with a capital letter. When will you learn to write in good English?

WritersBeware		Oct 8, 11, 11:30AM \| #20
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	editor75: WB-- I'm still waiting for Academon to lower the boom. have you made that phone call yet? As I told you previously, LOSER, your Acdn account does so little (if any) sales that I deemed it not worth the extra effort involved in getting it banned. You're an extremely small fish, Rusty. Initially, I thought it would be a worthwhile venture, but I should have known that you were LYING when you claimed that you had "thousands of dollars" in your Academon account. I revel in your failure, struggles, and ineptitude.

WritersBeware		Oct 8, 11, 11:32AM \| #21
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	editor75: ESL writers are writers, first and foremost. they are just as likely to be horrible at English as native speakers Moron . . . . That just about sums up Rusty's skewed mindset.

mukhirjii4		Oct 8, 11, 11:59AM \| #22
Joined: Aug 21, 11 Threads: 3 Posts: 45	WritersBeware: Moron . . . . Th as usual

editor75		Edited by: editor75 Oct 8, 11, 12:07PM \| #23
Joined: Dec 18, 10 Threads: 6 Posts: 999	WB-- you might have been able to help shut down a couple of overseas spam-companies that were competing with ET, but you can't touch a productive account at a legitimate company... you're only going to prove yourself a delusional victim of internet entitlement. none of your fake mercy. if the account is just peanuts as you claim, it shouldn't be too much of a job for you to have it shut down, just to teach me a lesson. right? I dare you to make good on your word.

WritersBeware		Edited by: WritersBeware Oct 8, 11, 01:26PM \| #24
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	editor75: WB-- you might have been able to help shut down a couple of overseas spam-companies Ah, so what happened to your previous claims about me having "no teeth" and "no power" to follow through on my promises? editor75: I dare you to make good on your word. Well, I do like a challenge. Considering that you've outright ASKED me to help get your "4years" account shut down, I will oblige.

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 8, 11, 01:31PM \| #25
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	pheelyks: we've been down this road before. I like this. However, note that strong companies have been faced out by the dynamism that we have these days. I am also happy that you feel threatened in this industry despite your being down this road before.

editor75		Edited by: editor75 Oct 8, 11, 02:16PM \| #26
Joined: Dec 18, 10 Threads: 6 Posts: 999	okay, WB-- no changing your mind this time. and while you try in vain to make good on your boast, or think up a new excuse to get out of it, I'll make sure to update you every time I get a payment from Academon.

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 8, 11, 02:54PM \| #27
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	munywab: I am also happy that you feel threatened in this industry What gave you that idea?

mukhirjii4		Oct 9, 11, 04:59AM \| #28
Joined: Aug 21, 11 Threads: 3 Posts: 45	pheelyks: What gave you that idea? phyleeks+wB+moekhan=same moron

itsme		Edited by: itsme Oct 9, 11, 06:51AM \| #29
Joined: Oct 1, 11 Posts: 97	mukhirjii4: phyleeks+wB+moekhan=same moron Care to prove it?

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 9, 11, 03:30PM \| #30
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	pheelyks: What gave you that idea? pheelyks: if you mean I don't realize there are companies making lots of money through the work of their writers Either of your quotes answers the other. The writer might be Phyleeks and the company might be ESL-owned. Not every hospital-owner has done medicine.

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 9, 11, 03:43PM \| #31
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	munywab: Either of your quotes answers the other. The writer might be Phyleeks and the company might be ESL-owned. Not every hospital-owner has done medicine. None of this makes any sense. It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code.

WritersBeware		Edited by: WritersBeware Oct 9, 11, 04:35PM \| #32
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	pheelyks: It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code. Don't you recognize the finest Swahili-English when you see it? He's a master . . .

WritersBeware		Oct 9, 11, 04:37PM \| #33
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	bator.

itsme		Oct 9, 11, 04:57PM \| #34
Joined: Oct 1, 11 Posts: 97	WritersBeware: bator. In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter.

WritersBeware		Oct 9, 11, 07:56PM \| #35
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	itsme: In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter. Don't count him out just yet. He's that stupid.

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 10, 11, 04:59PM \| #36
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	pheelyks: None of this makes any sense. It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code. Meaning you either never understand because of your close-mindedness or because you are just a moron, never to understand in the near future when the thickest will be understanding. Looser, you must be feeling the heat of an industry being taken by what you never thought would. Guys, open up your eyes and see what is happening in this industry. Do not close yourselves up in essayscam. Get to hear the truth out there and you will be surprised how the four monkeys (WB, Phyleeks, meo...whoever and its...whatever) fail to acknowledge.

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 10, 11, 05:03PM \| #37
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	itsme: this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter. (Its.........ass..........) you are just a grownup moron; says nothing, understands little and thinks 'it' is the opposite.

munywab	Company Representative	Oct 10, 11, 05:07PM \| #38
Joined: May 21, 11 Threads: 9 Posts: 115	WritersBeware: pheelyks Yesterday, 03:43PM \| #31 Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 2,667 Reply Quote munywab: Either of your quotes answers the other. The writer might be Phyleeks and the company might be ESL-owned. Not every hospital-owner has done medicine. None of this makes any sense. It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code. WritersBeware Edited by: WritersBeware Yesterday, 04:35PM \| #32 Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 134 Posts: 7,816 Reply Quote pheelyks: It sounds like you're talking in bad Cold War-era spy code. Don't you recognize the finest Swahili-English when you see it? He's a master . . . WritersBeware Yesterday, 04:37PM \| #33 Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 134 Posts: 7,816 Reply Quote bator. itsme Yesterday, 04:57PM \| #34 Joined: Oct 1, 11 Posts: 64 Reply Quote WritersBeware: bator. In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter. WritersBeware Yesterday, 07:56PM \| #35 Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 134 Posts: 7,816 Reply Quote itsme: In before he completely misses the point and complains that this 'sentence' didn't begin with a capital letter. Don't count him out just yet. He's that stupid. I agree. Same person, same thoughts, same words, same moron. Stop wasting too much time to recover. Go and utilize your writing talent working for an ESL. I hope you read Gates' words about who works for who. Lol.

pheelyks	Writer	Oct 10, 11, 07:01PM \| #39
Joined: Jan 20, 09 Threads: 8 Posts: 3,796	munywab: never to understand in the near future when the thickest will be understanding. Right.... munywab: Looser ...than what? munywab: the heat of an industry being taken by what you never thought would. exactly.... munywab: Get to hear the truth out there Why don't you bring the "truth" in here, starting with a list of the companies you own/work for, where you hire your writers, and how much you pay them.

WritersBeware		Oct 10, 11, 07:30PM \| #40
Joined: Apr 19, 07 Threads: 152 Posts: 8,669	munywab: the four monkeys (WB, Phyleeks, meo...whoever and its...whatever) *You* are calling somebody else a monkey?