| lex |
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Apr 18, 07, 12:12PM
| #1 |
Joined: Apr 6, 07
Threads: 2
Posts: 36
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i have read from a web post that essayscam.org, as well as essayfraud.org are fronts of other freelancing companies as means to "negatively advertise" other companies in direct competition with them..
is this true or not?
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| Major |
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Apr 18, 07, 12:59PM
| #2 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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So am I to assume you signed up here as essayscam or essayfraud representative and have posted 12 messages (so far) to "negatively advertise other companies"?
As far as I can tell quite a few freelance writers or dissatisfied clients received their money or better customer service thanks to messages posted on this site...
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| lex |
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Apr 18, 07, 08:40PM
| #3 |
Joined: Apr 6, 07
Threads: 2
Posts: 36
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nah! im just asking.. plain and simple..
the least you can do is post yes or no..
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| rat289 |
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Apr 20, 07, 07:49PM
| #4 |
Joined: Apr 12, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 167
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Quoting: lex, Post #1 i have read from a web post that essayscam.org, as well as essayfraud.org are fronts of other freelancing companies as means to "negatively advertise" other companies in direct competition with them.. is this true or not?
It does seem a tad suspicious that there seems to be a core of posters on both sites who not only have the same sentence structure and verbiage but the same message too... Essay writing is a highly competitive industry... it wouldn't surprise me... but I can't say for sure. I would suggest using other means for researching if a site is a scam or not.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 10:27AM
| #5 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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The other message forum's account has been suspended for some time now?? Reminds me of the court . . .
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| Timmy00 |
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Edited by: Admin Jun 12, 07, 10:51AM
| #6 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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essayfraud.org is owned by *********!
------
No speculations please.
Admin
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 11:11AM
| #7 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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yeah, I have heard that. ...been the talk in the essay writing industry. But one or some of the members here would not agree with you (like in the last time). The most that they can do is remind you or threaten you with a court case. I just wonder if this is pursued--how would the complaint read when it describes--party plaintiff? something like a . . . a duly registered 'profitless' organization or like this message forum--a non-profit organization. . . then if it is duly registered--members and funding will be out in the open....that is IF it is registered. I heard that the laws require registration of non profit organizations...i just wonder if . . .
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 11:17AM
| #8 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Admin, if you be more thorough--there are a lot of speculations here--such as when Writers Beware said that unqualified writers are taken in by essaywriters.net as this is a custom? Unless of course Writers Boo is the HR of that company.
OR when PS2 listed the scam sites as bestessays, essaywriters.net etc. when obviously based on her previous postings--she was/is a writer of essaywriters.net. How come she can include the other companies unless she also worked for them.
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| Timmy00 |
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Edited by: Admin Jun 12, 07, 11:53AM
| #9 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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@Admin
Its not a speculation, we all know who owns essayfraud.org.
If you call this speculation, then every post on this site falls under this category.
---------
The purpose of both sites is to help students, essay writing companies, and writers to meet their goals.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 02:16PM
| #10 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Taking the cudgel for the other site too? I agree that is supposed to be the purpose yet you have a hundred of posts here which contain defamatory remarks against people and companies, i.e. people were called criminals, scammers, Indians were asked to milk goats, posters were accused of being company reps or being paid to defend the bashed companies WITHOUT PROOF OR NOT EVEN BASED ON A DETAILED EXPERIENCE---that notwithstanding--this forum only chose to exercise its prerogative in editing and deleting that one company name based on speculation?
. . .a noble purpose.
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 02:33PM
| #11 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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nom_de_plume,
It seems you don't know what the freedom of speech is all about. Read the disclaimer below - all posts are OPINIONS, not "facts." Do you suggest to close all Internet forums because someone accuses a company or another person of something?
I understand why this site doesn't want to "fight" against the other site.
Regarding "criminals and scammers," such words were used by a national newspaper (CNN as I recall) - should they close CNN too?
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| Timmy00 |
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Edited by: Admin Jun 12, 07, 02:53PM
| #12 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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"The purpose of both sites is to help students, essay writing companies, and writers to meet their goals."
Yeah right!
Then how come posts about essaytown.com keep disappearing?
------
To prevent some posters to publicly fight against each other and post irrelevant and repetitive information.
Admin
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| nom_de_plume |
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Edited by: nom_de_plume Jun 12, 07, 02:54PM
| #13 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Freedom of speech--sorry I do not intend to give charity lectures. With freedom comes responsibility. Maybe you can read the post again.
USA Today issues warning that bloggers are inaccurate forms of information.
District Judge after investigation found: the website (xx) posted more than 110 "complaints" from consumers. Investigation proved that only 11 of these postings were actually from customers. The balance of 99 reports was made-up by members of xx staff.
Read the terms of use on respect--read the first page of the site on slander. Please do not let me define defamation, libel, slander and opinion...
Do not take it out of context--I was talking abt the exercise of Admin.'s prerogative.
I am hoping for an investigation or that the investigation is terminated. Who knows the bashed companies may be banding together to file class suit like that which was done in another message forum--but that has a different twist--RICO.
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 03:03PM
| #14 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Quoting: nom_de_plume, Post #13 USA Today issues warning that bloggers are inaccurate forms of information.
Fully agree with that. Whoever reads blogs or forums should keep in mind the information may not be 100% true.
But would you suggest that each and every message should be pre-moderated and investigated by a team of researchers and lawyers before making them to the public?
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 03:05PM
| #15 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Quoting: nom_de_plume, Post #13 to file class suit like that which was done in another message forum
Any more info on that? Do you suggest the other forum is down because of "class suit"? It seems to me they just forgot to pay for hosting or were over-quota...
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 03:17PM
| #16 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #14 But would you suggest that each and every message should be pre-moderated and investigated by a team of researchers and lawyers before making them to the public?
not necessary when posters are true and responsible and not when they are motivated by other interests. Courts come in to read their 'designed plan'
Taking it out of context: I maintain that the issue is the Admin's exercise of prerogative to delete and edit in one case but not in others which obviously are even defamatory.
Quoting: Major, Post #15 Any more info on that? Do you suggest the other forum is down because of "class suit"? It seems to me they just forgot to pay for hosting or were over-quota...
I am not suggesting anything--res ipsa loquitur--I said (xx) I know that you are a part of the other forum as well--I would not dare hurt your feelings.
Auf Wiedersehen! I have better things to do.
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| Timmy00 |
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Edited by: Timmy00 Jun 12, 07, 03:18PM
| #17 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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"To prevent some posters to publicly fight against each other and post irrelevant and repetitive information."
Then why dont you delete other threads where owners of other sites argue with Amy/WritersBeware about their sites? Why just Essaytown.com or Essayfraud.org threads/posts?
As far as I am conerned essaytown.com too is fraud as they dont disclose their American address on website. (according to them they are "based" in USA)
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 03:22PM
| #18 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Quoting: nom_de_plume, Post #16 not necessary when posters are true and responsible and not when they are motivated by other interests.
If someone is able to determine the poster's true intentions, s/he should be awarded with the Nobel Prize.
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 03:25PM
| #19 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Quoting: Timmy00, Post #17 As far as I am conerned essaytown.com too is fraud as they dont disclose their American address on website. (according to them they are "based" in USA)
If you think a company is "fraud" just because they aren't based in the US or don't disclose their postal address, you're wrong, I think.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 03:53PM
| #20 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #18 If someone is able to determine the poster's true intentions, s/he should be awarded with the Nobel Prize.
facts, evidence, funding, registration, acts done in pursuance of a goal, etc Some of the posts here are just conclusions--a company is a scam simply because they have not paid yet your fees? Well, what about when you are charged with inferior quality paper? Has earnest efforts been done to settle the issue with the company--etc.
A complaint is credible if it contains the details and has specificity of facts and of incidents.
again intention? as I have said for instance --the website (xx) posted more than 110 "complaints" from consumers. Investigation proved that only 11 of these postings were actually from customers. The balance of 99 reports was made-up by members of xx staff.------------is this not evidence enough of intention?
partiality--conduct to protect a few and conduct to encourage bashing of others
There are technical ways to detect--ask law enforcement.
Ciao!
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| Major |
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Edited by: Major Jun 12, 07, 04:19PM
| #21 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Being an online customer myself, I know there are companies that just don't get it - they won't reply to emails or phone calls even though they were at fault. I understand the frustration of some clients (not only students) - they need to have a way to vent.
If you refer to the company mentioned here that doesn't pay their writers (on time or at all) and still think dozens of complaints [some of which contain balance sheet] are not credible - well, it's your opinion. But to me it seems most (if not all) complaints don't have any hidden intentions.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 04:44PM
| #22 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #21 still think dozens of complaints [some of which contain balance sheet] are not credible - well, it's your opinion. But to me it seems most (if not all) complaints don't have any hidden intentions.
Your previous post---"Fully agree with that. Whoever reads blogs or forums should keep in mind the information may not be 100% true."
Consistency, pls.
Read the posts--a few posters admitted that they were charged with inferior quality papers. Not YET paid the fees SUBJECT to resolution of the issue.
Complaints of students quite credible to me especially when the company replies and resolves the dispute.
But what about Indians milking goats? respectful? a complaint?
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:04PM
| #23 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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What about public opinions about the president being a m*oron or a chimp? Should they put such posters in jail?
a few posters admitted that they were charged with inferior quality papers.
They were charged by who? The party that is responsible for payment? I cannot find a post stating that the writer admitted s/he wrote a poor paper and that was the reason s/he hasn't been paid. In this case you only believe one story and you suggest me to be objective and listen to the two parties? :)
Complaints of students quite credible to me especially when the company replies and resolves the dispute.
What if the companies doesn't care? I bet most of them frequent this forum and are aware of the complaints, but only a few bother to respond to the complaint.
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| Timmy00 |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:06PM
| #24 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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Quoting: Major, Post #19 If you think a company is "fraud" just because they aren't based in the US or don't disclose their postal address, you're wrong, I think.
Well according to essaytown.com/essayfraud if any website is not disclosing its physical location, then its fraud :)
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:12PM
| #25 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Quoting: Timmy00, Post #24 Well according to essaytown.com/essayfraud if any website is not disclosing its physical location, then its fraud :)
Well, it's a big warning sign of possible fraud (why a serious business would be afraid to disclose its physical location), but it's not automatically a proof by itself, I think.
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| Timmy00 |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:15PM
| #26 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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Quoting: Major, Post #25 Well, it's a big warning sign of possible fraud (why a serious business would be afraid to disclose its physical location), but it's not automatically a proof by itself, I think.
Xactly. These are double standards adopted by essaytown.com. They are bashing at other sites for not disclosing their Indian, Pakistani or other address and at the same time they too are hiding their actual location.
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:17PM
| #27 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Why do you focus on essaytown? The other sites have the right to do the same if they like.
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| Timmy00 |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:25PM
| #28 |
Joined: May 15, 07
Threads: 1
Posts: 29
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Quoting: Major, Post #27 Why do you focus on essaytown? The other sites have the right to do the same if they like.
Huh? There are accusing others of something which they themseleves are doing! Students/customsd need to know that essaytown.com too is unethical website (just like all sites with no real location address)
At both forums no one is allowed to talk about it freely. Posts/threads disappear!
This fourm is little bit better than other, atleast we can talk about essaytown till some extent here.
At essayfraud.org its forbidden to talk about essaytown.com :) Thread will be deleted in no time by *aheem* *aheem* :D
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:31PM
| #29 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #23 What about public opinions about the president being a m*oron or a chimp? Should they put such posters in jail?
It is his prerogative to file subject to judicial precedents on libel and public figure. Not comparable in this case.
If I subscribe to what you suggest then anyone can defame, libel and slander another. Why don't you start amending the laws.
Quoting: Major, Post #23 They were charged by who? The party that is responsible for payment? I
have you heard of company policies, breach thereof, due process, administrative investigation, resolution of dispute?
have you heard of collection cases in court ?
Logic--who can withhold payment except the one who has the money and the one who is to pay under certain conditions.
Quoting: Major, Post #23 cannot find a post stating that the writer admitted s/he wrote a poor paper and that was the reason s/he hasn't been paid.
Do your homework.
Quoting: Major, Post #23 What if the companies doesn't care? I bet most of them frequent this forum and are aware of the complaints, but only a few bother to respond to the complaint.
purely speculative.
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 05:49PM
| #30 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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So you claim some of the posts don't contain specific information and thus cannot be considered legit. You may want to read this:
Don't I have a right to express my opinion without fear of being sued for libel or slander?
Yes, so long as your statement of opinion is just an opinion, and does not contain specific facts that can be proved untrue. For example, "I didn't like Star Restaurant. The wait staff is slow and the food is too spicy," is a statement of opinion. "Whatever you do, don't go to Star Restaurant. I had a hamburger there that was tainted with e.coli and had to be hospitalized for a week," is potentially a defamatory statement if, in fact, the restaurant can prove that you never contracted e.coli and never spent any time in the hospital after eating there.
injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and_slander/express_opinion.htm
Let me summerize. You think that:
1. A customer doesn't have a right to express their opinion about the received service (unless it's a positive opinion).
2. An employee (in this case freelance contract writer) doesn't have a right to express their opinion about their employer if they don't pay them on time or don't pay at all.
Frankly, I wouldn't like to live in your world... I like democracy :).
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 12, 07, 06:05PM
| #31 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #30 Let me summerize. You think that: 1. A customer doesn't have a right to express their opinion about the received service (unless it's a positive opinion). 2. An employee (in this case freelance contract writer) doesn't have a right to express their opinion about their employer if they don't pay them on time or don't pay at all. Frankly, I wouldn't like to live in your world... I like democracy :).
It is what YOU think not me--our measures grow apart. As far as I am concerned I do not wish to argue with those who are ill-informed and interpret the laws based on their liking and affiliations. Have you heard of expressing facts based on personal knowledge?? Try to analyse and research a bit more.
I call your conjured kind of world --a jungle :-) so suit yourself.
BTW, it is summarize
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| Major |
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Jun 12, 07, 07:30PM
| #32 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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I'm not a lawyer - I'm just stating what makes sense to me. I believe in being reasonable and have lived in the US long enough to be able to recognize sensible versus non-sensible actions. Your ideas may be applied to a world-wide, big corporations, but as far as ordering an essay or writing as a contract freelance writer the rules are much more reasonable and straightforward.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Edited by: nom_de_plume Jun 13, 07, 02:09AM
| #33 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #32 I'm just stating what makes sense to me
You are putting words into my mouth and venturing on 'what I think' when you have twisted what I have posted.
Quoting: Major, Post #32 but as far as ordering an essay or writing as a contract freelance writer the rules are much more reasonable and straightforward.
laws have territorial application so do not try to tell me that contract laws for essay writing are different.
We are not even talking about contractual relationship here. Read all the posts again.
Posters can bash and slander a number of essay sites but not the few protected 'sacred cows.' Different rules apply you can speculate and generalize against the not 'favored sites' and always get away with it even if it contains defamatory remarks but if you try to tinker with the sacred cows--posts get edited based on speculation.
If one dares post against the scared cow/s, some posters would gang on you and demand proof. A different standard of conduct applies anent 'bashed sites' --you can bash and slander and generalize all one can without fear of the application of the terms of use.
Writers of these bashed sites who dare post that they have been paid their fees would readily be labelled as company reps.
You can express an opinion if it is against the bashed sites but if it is something favorable to them--one should dare not speak. Talk about your democracy?
All in the name of unfair competition ?--read the Lanham Act and FTC.
The owner of the 'consumer'site alluded to earlier is being hunted down by the FBI perhaps you can research and learn more about how the court ruled in that case. Freedom of speech is not absolute.
With freedom of speech, comes responsibility and if it's exercise is tainted by other considerations --it is a different matter.
I am sure tides will turn and when the time comes--everyone will be required to face up to that responsibility and be held liable for its consequences.
When that time comes--everything relevant to the cause/s of action will be subjected to careful scrutiny by an independent and objective tribunal--registration papers, memberships, funding, addresses, considerations, interests . . .uniform application of terms of use, etc.
A few may have been identified already and perhaps the company/ies would choose to exercise their prerogative to deal with 'exaggerations' and defamatory remarks in court.
Perhaps, I do know more than what you think.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Edited by: nom_de_plume Jun 13, 07, 08:38AM
| #34 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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You referred to the 'disclaimer' . . .in the same light I would suggest to you that you revisit the AUP-Acceptable Use Policy of the web host company Re: Offensive Content
"is unfair or deceptive under the consumer protection laws of any jurisdiction, including chain letters and pyramid schemes;
is defamatory or violates a person's privacy;
creates a risk to a person's safety or health, creates a risk to public safety or health, compromises national security, or interferes with a investigation by law enforcement;
clearly infringes on another person's trade or service mark, patent, or other property right;
is otherwise malicious, fraudulent, or may result in retaliation against XX by offended viewers"
Violation of the terms of AUP can result in suspension or termination of the TOS-Terms of Service.
I think, one of the posters here mentioned that when an account is suspended--it means you failed to pay, you exceeded the limit or you violated the terms of use agreement or a combination thereof.
ciao and enjoy yourselves.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 14, 07, 02:48AM
| #35 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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RE: opinion
Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co. 497 U.S. 1 (1990).
Court held that there is no constitutional distinction between fact and opinion, hence no "wholesale defamation exemption" for any statement that can be labeled "opinion."
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| Major |
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Jun 14, 07, 08:25AM
| #36 |
Joined: Oct 3, 06
Threads: 12
Posts: 502
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Quoting: nom_de_plume, Post #35 Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co. 497 U.S. 1 (1990).
Now we have 2007. In 1990 hardly anybody knew what the Internet and forums/blogs were. Since then the law has changed. It seems you only take the information from written sources and I even doubt you are based in the US; if you were, you'd have a chance to listen to some other independent news and read newspapers.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 14, 07, 09:33AM
| #37 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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Quoting: Major, Post #36 Now we have 2007. In 1990 hardly anybody knew what the Internet and forums/blogs were. Since then the law has changed.
The law has not changed. The case cited is jurisprudence--a legal precedent. It has not been overturned yet by the high court. It is found in the U.S. Constitution Annotated. U.S. Supreme Court is tasked to interpret the Constitution--there are a lot of cases reiterating the dictum.
Quoting: Major, Post #36 you only take the information from written sources
--not mere written sources--authoritative jurisprudence and the laws.
Not hearsay--not self-serving.
Quoting: Major, Post #36 I even doubt you are based in the US
Where I am based is irrelevant and immaterial--knowledge, expertise, experience, skills . . do not have any territorial boundaries.
The mind has no limits--it is never limited by the size of the skull--to believe otherwise, would be to live a life of ignorance.
dialectical reasoning, Major.
Quoting: Major, Post #36 if you were, you'd have a chance to listen to some other independent news and read newspapers.
U.S. is not the only country that has news on media. News reports refer to events but they never can substitute for the interpretation and implementation of legal precepts for order in a society of civilized men.
You see, with knowledge, expertise and skills that can serve as passport to everywhere.
news--for information
jurisprudence and laws--for peace and order in a society. Authoritative and binding--used to defend rights and prosecute causes of action.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Jun 15, 07, 01:51AM
| #38 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,669
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Has anyone else noticed that Timmy hasn't given even one fact here? Everything is pure speculation. It's pretty clear to me that Timmy works for someone who doesn't like essaytown very much, or Timmy owns a competing site himself. At least other posters here provide some evidence if they make strong accusations.
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| nom_de_plume |
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Jun 15, 07, 12:13PM
| #39 |
Joined: Apr 23, 07
Posts: 50
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What about your posts?
Look up the meaning of speculation and while you are at it—look up the meaning of detractor too. It is one of those labels you gave a poster here.
What do you know about evidence?
Quoting: WritersBeware, Post #38 It's pretty clear to me that Timmy works for someone who doesn't like essaytown very much, or Timmy owns a competing site himself. At least other posters here provide some evidence if they make strong accusations.
----argumentum ad hominem, a fallacy of logical reasoning.
Enjoy your 'reviews'
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| WritersBeware |
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Jun 15, 07, 02:00PM
| #40 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 152
Posts: 8,669
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Hey smartass, I don't need to look anything up. Do you think you are intelligent because you can type Latin phrases? Give me a break.
Show me ONE claim that I have made that isn't verifiable as fact.
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