| rustyironchains |
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Mar 14, 10, 08:50PM
| #1 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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now that it is busy-busy, here are some rules some of you "clients" in this retarded shadow industry might want to notice, so that we can all save some of our hair.
1. when you request a revision, don't just say "revise it." be detailed. your writer does not have a crystal ball.
2. writers aren't going to do your cover-page for you. a cover page consists of your name, your professor's name, the name of the course, the title, and the date, on a blank piece of paper. your writer is not supposed to have this information, anyway... though they might.
3. an annotated bibliography can take 3 or 4 extra pages, on average. when ordering, if you need an annotated bibliography, you need to order extra pages.
4. if the paper doesn't match your specs, change it on your own a little, before you go handing it back for revision. you know, you're not supposed to just hand it in, anyway. often, your professor is going to recognize your "voice"-- or the lack of it.
5. if you are dumb enuff to just hand it in (and I know, most of you are), and your professor busts you, don't go crying to your writer, asking them to "change it into my own voice." your writer, and everyone else, is going to be howling with laughter at you at this point, for being such a total dumbass.
6. don't be mean, sassy, or aggressive to your writer, even if they are mean and sassy to you. it may be hard to resist, but keep in mind: this is a person who may, depending on the company, have: your phone number, a copy of the paper you are going to try to pass off as your own, your school name, your username and password for your school databases, your name, your address, etc. so, big smiles.
7. class textbooks are expensive, and nearly impossible to find in your writer's local library. remember, you are not in the same class with your writer. if you have a big, heavy, expensive, obscure class textbook that needs used, you are going to need to scan some pages from it.
8. if your writer emails you a question, don't wait more than 24 hours to answer it. this is not like dropping off laundry. sometimes your writer may have a question, or need clarification on an issue before starting your paper.
that's the tip of the iceberg... thanks for listening.
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| WritersBeware |
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Mar 14, 10, 08:58PM
| #2 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 144
Posts: 8,391
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You're the reason we're in business, so we like you (generally), but there are a few things many of you do that cause us (both writers and admin) a whole lot of wasted time and stress. Before placing an order, run through this checklist, and you'll receive an essay that fits your exact needs in a much more timely fashion: -Word count matters. Most services offer somewhere between 250-300 words per double-spaced page. That's what you're paying for per page. If you want single-spacing, that's fine--just pay for twice the number of pages (i.e. 1 single-spaced page is the same as two double-spaced pages). This math isn't difficult. Additionally, if your description says you need at least 800 words but you only pay for two pages, you won't be getting 800 words (you would need to order three pages--get it?) -Include a brief description in the appropriate field Saying "see additional specifications" or "sent via email" causes a lot of annoying downloading just to see if I even WANT your order, when you could just as easily have copy-and-pasted the assignment description into your order form. On the other hand, including page after page of source material in your description, especially before you come to your actual needs in the assignment, is a ridiculous waste of time. -The number of sources matters If you are ordering a five-page paper, it doesn't need thirty sources. If there is actually a minimum requirement/suggestion, provide it. Otherwise, one source per page is the highest it should ever get (in anything three pages or longer). the case is very different for... -Annotated bibliographies A lot of the time spent on writing these goes into the research, not the writing, so it is already less cost-effective for writers to take these orders (we're still getting paid for two pages even if it takes an hour to find all of the sources, instead of half-an-hour to write a reaction to a poem. Make it easier by being realistic--do you think you can fit adequate information about twenty sources into two pages? Well, maybe you do since you're having someone else do this for you). Let me tell you, you can't. Three sources per page allows for 100 words (approx.) per source, which is the bare minimum for a proper summary and analysis of most articles. Two per page gets you something more detailed. This is all I have time for now, but please feel free to ask questions here or provide other suggestions. Freelancewriter, I know you started a similar thread awhile back, and I though it was time for a refresher. Please jump in with anything I've left out. |
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| WritersBeware |
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Mar 14, 10, 09:00PM
| #3 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 144
Posts: 8,391
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I write for about 6 commercial websites and always notice orders that (probably) don't ever get taken only because of the way they're phrased. Orders that are extremely difficult or require obscure knowledge are one thing; but I'm talking about perfectly doable papers on fairly simple topics. Unless your instructor specifically requires a citation style like Turabian or MLA, choosing styles other than APA only reduces the chances that writers who are already swamped with work will take them, simply because that requires more time and work. Same goes for asking for 6 or 8 references for a very short paper on a topic that really doesn't require more than a couple (if any). Requesting a specific number of quotes is also not helpful and only decreases the quality of your paper unless you've been instructed to include verbatim quotes. The worst are papers that are obviously supposed to be independent analyses or opinion pieces that specify unnecessary reliance on 5 or 6 sources. Also, don't try to "specify" your way into a 50% discount by asking for single spacing if the site says that all papers are double spaced. By all means, always include as much specificity as your assignment requires, but if your instructor doesn't specify a citation style or a minimum # of references, or direct quotes, just let us do what's appropriate based on your topic and our professional experience. It could make the difference between getting a great paper on time or getting a notice that your paper was never taken and you're getting a refund on your next cc billing cycle, especially this time of year. |
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| rustyironchains |
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Edited by: rustyironchains Mar 15, 10, 07:29AM
| #4 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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WB, thanks for being a silent conduit. I was expecting you to wade in, calling me names--what a nice surprise.
right, the reference thing. a lot of customers want 15-25 references crammed into a 3 page paper-- it's ridiculously unrealistic. sometimes I think it's because they don't realize it's a research proposal. a lot of these are UK customers, though-- I think the system is more insane there re: sources. it really steams me when a customer returns an order for revision because it's APA instead of Chicago, or something-- really, you can't change this yourself? when did we learn referencing, junior high?
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Mar 15, 10, 02:06PM
| #5 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,808
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rustyironchains: it really steams me when a customer returns an order for revision because it's APA instead of Chicago, or something-- really, you can't change this yourself?
I can, with extreme difficulty, live with that. How about when customers complain that their instructions were not followed and send the research back for revision:
1) margins should be 1.5" and not the MS Office default
2) font should be xxx, not yyy
Customers, can't you just SELECT ALL and change the font yourself???!!!!
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| rustyironchains |
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Mar 15, 10, 02:41PM
| #6 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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I've never had a paper returned for a font change, but I believe it's happened. seemingly, there is no end to what these people can't do for themselves. it's enough to make you want to cancel the order and post the paper on the web. if it weren't so snitchy and crybaby, I would do it often.
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| WritersBeware |
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Edited by: WritersBeware Mar 15, 10, 02:41PM
| #7 |
Joined: Apr 19, 07
Threads: 144
Posts: 8,391
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rustyironchains: WB, thanks for being a silent conduit. I was expecting you to wade in, calling me names--what a nice surprise.
If you recall, you're the one who started attacking me, accusing me of being a "racist" simply because I expose foreigners who—among many other fraudulent practices—masquerade as "American" at the expense of unwitting customers. Let's not forget your wholly unprovoked "WB is an outsider who doesn't know anything" campaign, either.
If a post or thread is legitimate, I contribute accordingly.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Mar 15, 10, 07:43PM
| #8 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,808
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rustyironchains: seemingly, there is no end to what these people can't do for themselves.
Some customers believe that that they have not just purchase a service, but an academic writer-slave. They expect their slave to be at their beck and call 24/7 and, upon demand, jump through rings of fire.
A couple of days ago, this supposedly mature 50+ PhD customer instructed the writer to correspond with his/her thesis supervisor as if he were the customer him/herself. The writer refused and the customer had (what can only be described as) a psychotic meltdown. To say that she was abusive would be an understatement. We intervened on the side of the writer (the poor guy was really very polite throughout), cancelled the order and refunded the psycho. At the last count, 23 abusive emails to support. Last one was "jump in a lake you vindictive b@$%ch."
Customers - be nice. Few are going to allow you to abuse their writers. At the end of the day, a good writer is more valuable to us (companies in this business) than is one customer. Yes, we certainly value you and will do all that is possible to ensure your satisfaction, but WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO BE RUDE TO YOUR WRITER.
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| cocklejoe |
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Mar 16, 10, 04:50AM
| #9 |
Joined: Jul 21, 09
Threads: 3
Posts: 137
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WRT: can't you just SELECT ALL and change the font yourself???!!!!
Reminds me of a conversation I overheard a few years back in a corridor:
STRESSED STUDENT: I handed in my essay yesterday but I've realised I should have used a different font, could I get it back from you and change it?
STRESSED LECTURER: No, **** off.
I think '**** off' about 100 times every day when dealing with whining students, but I've never actually said it. Yet.
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| FreelanceWriter |
Writer |
Edited by: FreelanceWriter Mar 16, 10, 04:53AM
| #10 |
Joined: Oct 8, 08
Threads: 3
Posts: 600
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rustyironchains: it really steams me when a customer returns an order for revision because it's APA instead of Chicago, or something-- really, you can't change this yourself? when did we learn referencing, junior high?
If a specific citation style was requested, they have a right to a revision. That said, customers have no right to expect any revisions like that otherwise. In fact, I'll admit that in the States, we do not study citation style very much; it's something most of us have to become familiar with "on the job" and it can be a royal pain.
Also, customers should know that from our point of view, if you insist on any citation style that requires page numbers, you've just dramatically reduced the chances that some of us will bother taking your order. Let's say that I've written (literally) 100+ papers on Constitutional Law or Nursing or Criminal Justice or Business Management. After a dozen or so papers on very similar topics, I don't really have to look all that much up because even a dope like me can remember a few dozen books and journals in each of those topics including the names of authors and publication dates. Most of my A-quality essays on those topics are written without even glancing at any sources because I'm sure what I found there many times before is still there. I write the paper and then insert the appropriate in-text references for anything that requires a reference.
If you force me to actually dig up all those books and journals to find specific page numbers (and the first names and middle initials of every author), that paper just became much more of a pain that will waste a lot of time to find specific pages. If you're assigned MLA, you have no choice; if you're not, just let us choose what style to use. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to see papers I could bang out at A-quality in an hour or two but with such specific demands for references that it's not worth the bother.
Also, if you submit 20 pages of your textbook in 20 individual scans (some of which can't even be viewed clearly or printed out), I click away from your paper as soon as I see a string of .gifs on the resource screen. That's also a shame because sometimes the choices customers make in submitting files is the hardest for them and also the least convenient for us.
Finally, if you clutter my account with a rewrite request asking for something (like a thesis statement) that's right there exactly where it should be because you haven't even bothered to read the paper you had me write for you, I'm sorry, but I just don't have the patience to respond except to clear it off my screen and refer you directly to customer service.
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| Modmuff |
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Mar 16, 10, 06:16AM
| #11 |
Joined: Mar 6, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 74
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Bottom line is - you get what you pay for: if you pay cheap, you get cheap.
Best not to believe ANY advice on this forum - where any idiot can post any old lie and attempt to libel and abuse good companies, and say how great cheap trash companies are. Most essay writing comapanies are cheap in quality and price.
But ALWAYS a bibliography should come for free and not be part of the word count. The piece should be properly referenced too - Harvard if no other specification is made.
The fact is, some writers can be a pain and some clients can be a pain - just look at this forum.
But still, dwagster, VIOLIN...here we are...
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| rustyironchains |
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Mar 16, 10, 06:54AM
| #12 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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Modmuff: But ALWAYS a bibliography should come for free and not be part of the word count
unless it's annotated.
Modmuff: Harvard if no other specification is made.
if you're in the UK.
...let's watch out for absolutes.
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| Modmuff |
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Mar 16, 10, 07:57AM
| #13 |
Joined: Mar 6, 10
Threads: 2
Posts: 74
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Yes Rusty, I agree - but then this site is full of those who think the entire world is absolutely American and therefore, somehow, every essay site in every other country must be negatively compared to US sites... as if they were the best!
Not true of course - because as I see it, most scam sites are in Asia and the USA (not the UK), and also, the standard of education in the UK is higher than the US too, so the written work will be of a higher standard.
But really, Harvard is standard except for APA which is often used in social sciences - but students should always state which type of referencing they want - and really, a bibliography OF ANY KIND should come for free. But then, maybe not with the cheap US sites...
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| FreelanceWriter |
Writer |
Edited by: FreelanceWriter Mar 16, 10, 06:08PM
| #14 |
Joined: Oct 8, 08
Threads: 3
Posts: 600
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Another couple of suggestions for customers:
When you send supplemental resource files, it can take the better part of a day before they actually become available to us on the company systems. If you already included the entire paper description in your order (which is always smart), we don't need a supplemental file with nothing but the exact same information. All you're doing is causing an unnecessary delay because if your order says that files are being sent, we can't start writing until we get them. For all we know, you're sending us essential files that are required for the paper.
Also, stop sending us "grading rubrics," especially for typical college essays. We don't need any help organizing papers properly, referencing our sources, or making sure that our grammar and spelling are correct for the same exact reason your car mechanic doesn't need your suggestions for holding a wrench or connecting a hose. Before you waste your time and ours and delay your paper by sending us rubrics as files, ask yourself whether there's really anything in the rubric that you think anybody who writes 3-4 (and often more) of these papers every single day for a living doesn't already know.
Finally, here's a trick you can use anytime you want to make sure that no writer ever takes your paper off the company boards: Don't include any information about what the paper is about in the boxes provided for ordering. Just use those boxes to tell us that all the necessary information will be sent as a file later. If you want to really make it absolutely impossible to write your paper, do that and then don't bother sending any files. Also, when you order clothes online, don't give them any item # or your size or color choice because that's just as great a way to order clothes. Just give them your credit card and ask them to send you "that shirt in your catalog."
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| rustyironchains |
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Mar 17, 10, 06:37AM
| #15 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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Modmuff: But really, Harvard is standard except for APA which is often used in social sciences - but students should always state which type of referencing they want - and really, a bibliography OF ANY KIND should come for free. But then, maybe not with the cheap US sites
annotated bibliographies should not come for free. they should be extra pages, usu. 3-4 for about 11-15 sources.
the cheapest site I ever worked for was Essaywriters.net... not a US site.
FreelanceWriter: Also, stop sending us "grading rubrics,"
I find these useful for making subheadings.
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| rustyironchains |
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Mar 17, 10, 06:39AM
| #16 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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FreelanceWriter: Just use those boxes to tell us that all the necessary information will be sent as a file later.
these are the worst.
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| rustyironchains |
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Mar 21, 10, 10:26AM
| #17 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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also, attn. company administrators--
as you can see above, your customers are 90% idiots-- ignorant, uneducated, inexperienced, nervous...
your writers, if you're in a somewhat legit company, are 90% experienced-- educated, creative, reasonably intelligent...
and yet, 90% of the time, if there is a dispute, there you are, on the side of the moronic customer, defending them to the end, right or wrong...
defending the short money at the expense of the long.
administrators-- in such cases, pray tell, wtf are you thinking?
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Mar 21, 10, 12:09PM
| #18 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,808
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Yes, the majority tend to side with the customers. Could very well be wrong but, I rather believe that it's because the administrators are, themselves, as uneducated as the customers. How does one even respond to "you forgot to cite Ibid in the bibliography. Please revise your work"?
Companies which are run by somewhat literate people tend to side with the writers, though.
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| carol_taki |
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Sep 2, 10, 03:53PM
| #19 |
Joined: Sep 2, 10
Posts: 14
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Just a question.. So if I were to order an essay, would the reference list be included in the page count and be charged too? sorry for my newbie question here.
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| WRT |
Company Representative |
Sep 2, 10, 03:54PM
| #20 |
Joined: Sep 29, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 1,808
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carol_taki: Just a question.. So if I were to order an essay, would the reference list be included in the page count and be charged too?
No, it would not be. Of course, it ultimately depends on the company you select but, in general - of course not!
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| carol_taki |
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Sep 2, 10, 04:02PM
| #21 |
Joined: Sep 2, 10
Posts: 14
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thanks for clarifying WRT! =)
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| rustyironchains |
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Sep 2, 10, 04:23PM
| #22 |
Joined: Jun 15, 09
Threads: 14
Posts: 881
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ask the company-- they all tend to have slightly different rules about revisions and formatting.
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